inception

[UghRochester]

BigZell To answer your questions is because after entering one dream...they entered another dream, and another dream. They originally planned to be in three different dream yet by being in one huge dream which is why they called it "Three Levels" (I think of it a sub-divisional dream)

When in the dreaming process, it feels like hours and hours have gone by even though it only has been several minutes, kind of like being in the Wardrobe from the "Chronicles of Narnia" So essentially, they entered one dream...that gives them an hour or so, while Arthur was in the hotel, Cobb Saito Fischer etc went inside another dream (or level.) giving them more time while Arthur was figuring out how to make them get the falling feel.

So, even though the shaking of the van caused destruction in the next level of the dream, it wouldn't cause any problems unitl minutes later in the other level of the dream, do you follow?

 

[UrbanMasque]

UrbanMasque says:

Lets think about this using the evidence the movie gives you.
----> The movie gods of Inception say: When you die in limbo there is a definite risk/near certainty that your real mind may become catatonic, or thrown into a coma, or die ( more than likely you'll probably become an unrecoverable vegetable). Leonardo and his wife experimented with dreaming within dreams within dreams, ad inifitum, at the end of which - to try to revive their minds, they offed themselves (very dramatically and definitely not the way I would think about ending my life even in a lucid dream). Why off themselves - because they were trapped there and were incapable of feeling a kick (the last scene before limbo they were lying on a flat floor, which is probably where they are both still laying, in that layer of dream).
After they died on the train tracks they both were sent deeper into another dream, and NOT back to reality, this time probably inside their own individual minds ( Think about it - when they died they weren't connected to anything or to each other with that IV hookah device). Sucks for them... Spending eternity anywhere, but especially in your own mind, is the epitome of hell - IMO. And there is no way out for them because even if they did die due to old age they would only just go deeper and deeper into dream layers (because the human lifespan isn't longer than the amount of time it would take to revive from those several layers of dream when you continue to multiply the time).

The only question after that I had left was - who was the architect (host) of the final dream (when they were on the floor before the train suicide layer), I argue that it was probably Mawl.

One reason why is because he didn't experience any of the dreamlike symptoms associated with the totem. It was HER totem to begin with, and she kept it hidden from him because she knew he would realize they were dreaming if he never saw it drop in her presence - and it would NEVER drop in front of Mawl. So when he took it from her, not knowing its dimension and weight the physics of the object would be the same as in real life, the object became reliable enough to make his own totem. Again, this is because his wife was more than likely the architect of the dream world he perceived as reality after his train death. He would grow old and continue to age much like what happened to the Japanese guy - because that's what he expected to happened.

By planting the idea in Mawl's head about inception he exposed her to the truth that nothing is real - driving her "insane", when really she was seeing things very clearly.

These are the reasons why I think the top will never stop spinning. Mawl was right, and its kind of disturbing to think about how severely screwed they both are.
I've been dying for a debate - a fun debate - no religion (stal), and no name calling (eyebrows)
Please convince me that the top stops.

Please change my mind.


Ugh I get the movie concept of what you are saying and what the movie is doing, but m just as confused about how that could happen. I still don't get how chemicals and bullets can have the effect that they do on people in dreams, and in shared dreams within dreams - even assuming I KNOW what you're injecting me with or you aim a shotgun at my head and fire, nothing happens In my lucid dreams unless I want it to happen. Dreaming is all about perception, and I would imagine that wouldn't change even in a shared lucid dream. *blah blah blah - hollywood sci fi metaphsyics about shared dreaming yada yada yada* Fine , but in falling your inner ear is still very active EVEN IF your eardrums aren't. Everyone was in that van and everyone should've felt the effects of that kick w/ or without headphones. But Urban its the future, they have equipment that neutralizes the effects of the inner ear... Its hard to imagine - but i guess at some point in the future it could be possible to neutralize the affects of the inner ear using some sort of noise cancellation - but probably not while sending music through at the same time. I would love to try the thing on and get launched into space, maybe it negates the effects of gravity and inertia too.

*blah blah Christopher Nolan is the new George Lucas*
I'm going to buy this when it comes out with the SOLE purpose of looking at the scenes they decided to delete.


So sayeth UrbanMasque - the dream crusher.

This is a great movie, kinda genius - but the hype machine around the movie is forcing me to find flaws.
# 3 in the sea of movies ever created. I can see how people might think so, but for me..ehh. not so much. Movies like Waking Life, The Color Purple, Across the Universe, and Ana's Playground are way more powerful (these movies also probably aren't on that list of 250, or on the very low end). Ranking movies is kinda like arguing about sports teams, pointless but very fun.

Romeo and Juliet is still Leo's best role... there I said it..

 

[DocMoc]

Across the Universe

Really?

 

[UghRochester]

Urban, how can you say Leo's best role was Romeo & Juliet? Try watching The Man in the Iron Mask...there I said it.

 

[MattAY]

Across the Universe

Really?

Yeah, he's Starrrr Trekkiiiiin'

 

[UrbanMasque]

Urban, how can you say Leo's best role was Romeo & Juliet? Try watching The Man in the Iron Mask...there I said it.

Ive seen it, its ok. Jeremy Irons and the french guy are decent too.

Across the Universe is sick, and if you don't think so then you can't tell me ANYTHING about quality movies.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Do we really need to keep posting in white? This is the third page?

IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS MOVIE YET, STOP READING THIS THREAD ALREADY! WE ALL LOVED IT SO GO SEE IT AND THEN COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT.

*ahem* anyways...


Urban, regarding your theory on Cobb and Mal not awakening from limbo is a good one. But it's still just a theory. If the entire film was a dream we would've seen the entire film from Cobb's point of view. But we see it from other points of view such as Arthur's point of view in the hotel while on level 2. Or Yusuf's point of view (The Chemist) in the van on level 1. Or Fischer's point of view when he enters his own subconscious, etc. I understand the idea of shared dreaming but if the entire movie was in fact a dream then nobody would be real except for Cobb and we clearly see they can exist without him.




Ugh, I'm not 100% sure on this but I think each time they went under, they were using the same sedative that would keep them knocked out. The only way to awaken was by using the synchronized kicks because they had timed it when the sedative would wear off. So while Arthur is a sleep in the van and his dream world is going haywire, he remains in the dream because he's too "doped up".

As we all know, level 2's anti-gravity was being influenced by the actions in level 1. In level 1, they are free falling in very slow motion, so in level 2 they are weightless. Now because they are weightless, it does not affect their minds and therefore does not influence their dream in level 3.

*blah blah Christopher Nolan is the new George Lucas*

Oh you take that back right now! Is Nolan the next Stanley Kubrick? Maybe. But not the next Lucas. Avatar is a better comparison to Star Wars. Inception is a thinking-man film masquerading as an epic heist movie.

This is a great movie, kinda genius - but the hype machine around the movie is forcing me to find flaws.
# 3 in the sea of movies ever created. I can see how people might think so, but for me..ehh. not so much. Movies like Waking Life, The Color Purple, Across the Universe, and Ana's Playground are way more powerful (these movies also probably aren't on that list of 250, or on the very low end). Ranking movies is kinda like arguing about sports teams, pointless but very fun.

#3 on the top 250 at IMDb doesn't mean squat. And any credibility it once had was destroyed when The Dark Knight shot up to the #1 spot during it's release. Fanboys all voted The Godfather (originally at the #1 spot) a 1/10 to get The Dark Knight higher. It's a fucking joke. Besides, the rating will go down.

If you want a better consensus on a movie, I check out Rotten Tomatoes. I'll trust a critic any day over the wild obsessive fans at IMDb.

Also, I'm very happy you mentioned Waking Life.

 

[UrbanMasque]

^ Waking life is what got me experimenting with Lucid Dreaming. Its a great movie, and kind of what Leo is experiencing. Leo is trapped inside his own mind, inside Mawl's dream world. Which is the reason why he will NEVER be able to completely tune her out. Everyone in that movie was made up by Mawl, which is why he can no longer become a true architect - because he is operating within the limits of what Mawl allows him to do - she lets him do everything else except build his own world, because she is omniscient when it comes to Leo's capacity to create and plan.


I mean, until Mr. Nolan decides to tell us the score - we will NEVER know, but guessing is fun as hell.

Why the hell would you want to share a dream with anyone, that seems like it would drive you crazy!

 

[MikeyVassallo]

Across the Universe was hideous.

 

[DocMoc]

Across the Universe is sick, and if you don't think so then you can't tell me ANYTHING about quality movies.

The singing was phenomenal but beyond that, I thought it was ho-hum.

I was thinking about your ideas on Inception Urban: As I understood, one of the foundational principles of shared dreaming was if you die, you wake up. The reason they would fall into limbo after being killed was because they were sedated so heavily during their job.

I really need to see it several times to pick up all the small details.

 

[Longo_2_guns]

Right, well I finally saw this. It was good. I'd give it a solid A minus or so.

Although did anyone else ever feel like it was just The Matrix with dreams instead of computers? Because at least that would explain why about 5 misfits would be better soldiers than a whole bunch of actual soldiers.

 

[WickedLiquid]

I've seen a lot of people compare this to The Matrix but the stories are very different.

The Matrix is about a dystopian future where the human race is enslaved within a computer simulation based on how the world once was at the end of the 20th century.

Inception is about a team of extractors who have been hired to plant an idea into someone's head by traveling deeper into the target's mind through levels of dreaming.


They're both action movies that involve your mind transporting you to another place that isn't exactly real, but they're still different films.

 

[Daddio]

Although did anyone else ever feel like it was just The Matrix with dreams instead of computers? Because at least that would explain why about 5 misfits would be better soldiers than a whole bunch of actual soldiers.

They weren't really real soldiers though .. they were the dudes mental defense / interpretation of a defense corp .. of the mind. So unless he was a military man with very good knowledge of military tactics there could be holes in said mental defense.

What I don't understand is how hooking a tube up to 5 people transports them to the SAME dream .. I was thinking maybe they needed some sorta connection to the head or something.

 

[Rakon]

Dear WickedLiquid:

You deserve an award for having the clearest description on how Inception was a different movie from The Matrix. The two are actually quite different concepts, with only the "reality vs. illusion" theme being a major player in both.

Well done sir. Well done.

And to respond to the post above:

There were many things in the movie that you just need to take as is. It really doesn't matter HOW they went into eachother's dreams. Arthur said it has military/government background, so that should be enough for you. If Nolan spent time explaining all those little intricacies then the movie would lose quite a bit, as he wouldn't have been able to focus on the more pressing issues (i.e plot, conflict, etc.). An example of what I mean is lightsabers. Does it really matter how a lightsaber works? No. I know they are laser swords, and they are badass. I take it as a given. I instead focus on how awesome they are.

 

[Lien]

Besides, The matrix was a rip-off of Dark city!

Anyway, my lil' brother got a job at the metreon with unlimited film tickets for him a family members, yup life is good. And guess who has two thumbs and saw Inception again on imax for the third time? :roll:

The movie never gets old.

 

[LawnGnome]

Besides, The matrix was a rip-off of Dark city!

Actually, "The Matrix" was a rip-off of Doctor Who. Several episodes during the mid-70s dealt with a massive virtual reality computer system in which advanced users could bend the reality therein & if you died in it you died in real life. Guess what the computer system was called? Yeah, The Matrix.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Dear WickedLiquid:

You deserve an award for having the clearest description on how Inception was a different movie from The Matrix. The two are actually quite different concepts, with only the "reality vs. illusion" theme being a major player in both.

Well done sir. Well done.

Thanks

 

[MattAY]

I watched it. It was OK. Just a lot of time limits, I didnt understand any of it really. Or there were some questions that I couldnt really figure out. But fun to watch the minivan fall every 5 minutes. And how none of those guys died in the minivan is beyond me? Also, everyone in that film needs shooting practise, apart from the British guy. Who isnt a soldier.

 

[Daddio]

And to respond to the post above:

There were many things in the movie that you just need to take as is. It really doesn't matter HOW they went into eachother's dreams. Arthur said it has military/government background, so that should be enough for you. If Nolan spent time explaining all those little intricacies then the movie would lose quite a bit, as he wouldn't have been able to focus on the more pressing issues (i.e plot, conflict, etc.). An example of what I mean is lightsabers. Does it really matter how a lightsaber works? No. I know they are laser swords, and they are badass. I take it as a given. I instead focus on how awesome they are.

That question by no means hindered my enjoyement of the movie while I was presently watching it, nor has it taken away from the pure awesomeness that it is. Simply something I was wondering afterwards. They didn't really give you much time to think about anything, but when whats his face was doing the fighting in zero gravity in the hotel, I was giggling with excitement.

*possible spoilers*

At the time when they were going slowmo off the bridge I totally forgot that they were still in a dream at that time and that was the trigger to get back to reality. That's how awesome that movie was.

 

[MattAY]

Actually, tell you what I want to know.

SPOILER

What the hell did the boss' son say at the end that made their mission a success? I thought it was something like "I'm gonna live for myself" or something shit like that. Please tell me I heard him wrong.

/SPOILER