Intelligent Design

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by De-Ting, Oct 12, 2008.

?

What do you think?

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  2. Ehh...

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  1. TheNesMan

    TheNesMan Rookie

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    Only a small portion of the monkeys developed thumbs and other traits that allowed them to survive more easily than their monkey brothers. So only a couple of monkeys evolved (over a tremendous amount of time, not pokemon type of evolving) into homo-sapiens. The remaining regular monkeys were still capable of surviving because that's what they're meant to do; survive.
     
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  2. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    eh? I need to get out more because your family is devout? I, too, come from a devout family. I have uncles and aunts and grandmothers who worked or are working in the religious business sector. And maybe (I don't know, so how could I say) your family pushed their beliefs onto you, forced them onto you. Maybe you rebelled. Not my family, they never did.



    Yeah, it's a church, that's the whole point. And this here is your church: the online church of atheism. And atheists have way more face time with me than I'd like.

    Shit, I need to go back to church to balance the two out.

    Some Christians take it upon their religion, not themselves. In their minds they believe they're helping you. And this is not all Christians, despite what you may believe.

    Example, I've never pushed my beliefs onto you, but wasn't it you who said:
    So You want Me to allow you freedoms to choose within your beliefs, but would take all of my freedoms away as a Christian.
    Yeah, about arrogance.


    Yeah, you're much more subversive than offensive, but that's your approach. Bait, wait, attack. Come on, dude.


    If you couldn't see I was being facetious in the God? topic page 1, then I apologize. But I never said FTG is arrogant (well, not until now), I meant atheists in general. These topics get too heated too quickly, but maybe it's you who need to get out more. Passive-aggressive can still be taken as aggressive, just as any one can find arrogance in any statement made if they're looking for it and especially online where no one else is right but me.


    And to that I say this:
    At this time I would like to point out that despite being an Christian, I do not necessarily agree with what other Christians have to say. That is all.

    Thank you for your answers. But I think I'll go with TheNesMan's response as his was just a whole lot more factual.
     
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  3. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    That's a 5th grade lie. Ask any real history teacher and they'll tell you that only idiots actually believe that people thought the world was flat. Anyone that's been near a coast can see the curve of the Earth.

    The flaw I see in intelligent design is Us. Humans, right here. We are stupid as a collective mass. That is unintelligent design.

    That and Gamma ray bursts and black holes, I mean, why?! Galactic trash can and spray cleaner?
     
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  4. Flaming_Tiki_God

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    Honestly, I know not what to say.
    I feel as if you've painted me an enemy of yours at least in philosophical and religious thinking. You'll just deny whatever I say and attack me instead.
    I'm not passive aggressive. I'm pointing out flaws in arguments. Not attacking, not baiting, not making a first move in vengeance (as passive aggressiveness would still imply).

    Also, I don't understand your point here:
    And I don't know what "What if" thing your referring to in the Lucifer topic...
     
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  5. Tylzen

    Tylzen Rookie

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    Chris: We did not come from Apes or Monkeys, we evolved from the same "forefather".
    99,3% is what we share with the chimpanse, so millions of years back, we had 100% similiarity, but a mutation happened, and we divided into two different species.

    It takes time, millions of years.
    Which seems weird in a Christian point of view, since they only think the earth is a couple of tens of thousands of olds, or younger.
     
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  6. NickKmet

    NickKmet Regular

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    Chris, i respect your opinion, but i must point out a little bit of hypocricy on your part.

    First, you said this:

    You defend against FTG's apparent generalization of Christians and religious groups in general.

    And yet, you say this:


    So, you get all pissy about FTG generalizing, and then you go ahead and do the same thing. That really doesn't help your argument, i'm afraid.

    Now, just because i can, i'll put out my point of view.

    Intelligent design should not be taught in school because it is not science based. There have been 0 obersved instances to prove or corroborate the theory of intelligent design. There is no collected data to support intelligent design. Intelligent design merely claims that evolved life is too complicated to have happened without a helping hand. Intelligent design was never meant to describe the universe, but simply how life came to be. Evolution, on the other hand, actually has a substantial amount of data to back it up. And while it still hasn't been completely proven, it has more scientific fact to back it up.

    When it comes to the universe itself, i am content to say that we don't know how it works, and probably never will. Get over it. It should be readily apparent to everyone that in the greater context of the universe, we humans are relatively insignificant. We haven't even left our own planet yet. These kinds of topics are not things that we should concern our daily lives with, because we've discovered so little up to this point.

    Now, i believe that everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they want to believe in. If you want to believe in god, then go ahead. Do it. But please, have the ability to respect other people's opinions and have the decency to not just assume everyone who doesn't share your belief is an ignorant fool.

    I was raised on the belief that science should take prevelance over everything because its important to have proof to back up your claims. I'm the kind of person that needs to see some of that proof to believe in anything. If god actually cared enough to have me believe in him, then fuck, he'd do a lot better job than giving me a book written 2000 years ago that claims a dude got eaten by a whale, and lived. seriously.
     
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  7. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Why? Because the designer designed something that can adapt? Evolutionary Creation has never been close to being proven, but Adaptation and Natural Selection are pretty certain.

    The main argument here is, again, Religious Faith vs Science which are two very separate things and to try and combine them is the height of folly.

    If you need a reason to feel justified about being an Atheist then maybe your heart isn't in it.
     
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  8. maca2kx

    maca2kx Rookie

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    Where's the adaptability of the coccyx? The use of ear muscles?

    I need about as much justification for being an atheist as physicists do for believing in gravity.

    Sam
     
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  9. NickKmet

    NickKmet Regular

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    umm....isn't it usually a good thing to have some sort of justification behind what you believe in?
     
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  10. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Hey Chris. Dallas just lost to Arizona in OT. Where is your God now?

    (The Seahawks still suck :( )

    <3
     
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  11. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    man, Romo put them in a bad spot. I'm still surprised Folk made that field goal. Arizona deserved to win, and Dallas deserved to lose.

    (At least the Seahawks still suck :))

    <4

    um, as for the other stuff, you're all right and I'm wrong.
     
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  12. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    And this concludes another religion topic.
     
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  13. TheZoomZoomKid

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    I'm not against the theory of intelligent design, but I am against the theory that we're being influenced by the ultimate designer.
     
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  14. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    I personally don't think so, but much like everyone has stated many times, this theory cannot be refuted. I personally think that this theory just leads to a more harmful road, known as religion. That's why I don't care. Most people who would believe this would probably believe that this intelligent designer is still around and guiding is (I'm not saying all, just many). I don't agree with it, but that's just me (and some other people around here too).
     
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  15. Toomie

    Toomie Rookie

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    Why is everybody on this forum starting threads obviously, explicitly designed to get everybody banned? Also, sorry in advance, Longo.

    Ehhhhhhh...no. The difference between the "theory" of intelligent design and the "Theory of Evolution", apart from the obvious definition of a "scientific theory", is so significant that speaking about them as if they were at all in the same class of thought is ridiculous. It boils down to this: Evolution by natural selection has mountains of evidential and, aha, falsifiable support backing it up. Intelligent design, ignoring the blatant motives of the social movement behind it, has all the scientific support of the flying spaghetti monster. You cannot legitimately expect the idea of Santa Claus to command the same respect that the Big Bang does. The ideas I've listed have discharged their burden of proof and earned their place; yours are grammatical traps based on a flimsy understanding of the scientific method.

    Your intuition is not a better measuring stick than my test tube.

    You're working on this backwards. The factors allowing life to bloom on Earth did not cause that life to bloom; life bloomed within the confines of certain factors allowing and guiding its arisal. Behold this delicious tuna sub, existing within the perfect parameters to satiate my hunger! But wait...I made the tuna sub to the allowed parameters, because I was hungry. The analogy isn't that good--it implies want or desire, its inherent sloppiness aside--but you see what I'm saying, yes?

    When I say this, I want you to know that I say it without the rancor I've seen some other members of this forum display: You are a meaningless bag of meat and backwards premises. Stop unravelling evidence from your assumptions and start again from the beginning.

    Can God create a rock He cannot Himself lift?

    Old school.

    Ehhh. There's a difference between the social movement supporting it and the "theory" itself. While it's been taken up by religious nuts in what they probably think is a really clever bid to slip creationism into schools, on its "theoretical" level it doesn't posit any particular religion or creating force.

    But note the breath-taking contempt with which I put "theory" into quotation marks. I am a badass.

    You've got that backwards. The burden is on the ID nutters to provide some support to their arguments, not for sane, rational folk to waste their time falsifying an inherently non-falsifiable idea.

    This.

    True!

    There is also nothing that explicitly disproves Abe Vigoda is the "intelligent designer". Statements like this ultimately just boil down to wrangling over grammar.

    It kind of seems to me that judging other people as "not particularly religious", when they believe themselves to be so to an extreme degree, is, in fact, a form of persecution. Also, the blatant generalization about atheists aside, based on some kind of anecdotal evidence I can't discern, it's fairly demonstratable that those of the organized religion persuasion have almost always been the ones doing the majority of the, erm, "attacking". To whit: The past 2000 years or so of western history.

    Natural selection isn't a linear process. Try to think about it as a tree, with all of the branches, and all of the twigs, and the leaves, and the way things build on each other and then split, only it's an entire forest, and one of the branches sprouts off to the platypus and then another one leads to Ron Paul.

    Oh man, we're so totally hardxcore philosophy arch-foes as of right now. Get on your lucky underwear, this is going to twelve rounds.

    Also, I'm uncomfortable with this whole "church of atheism" business. Church of black people, or church of left-handed people is about as sensible. Also, why are you people talking about arrogance like it means anything within the context of this discussion? I am clearly the most arrogant out of anybody here. Let's move on to more interesting conversations.

    ....


    .....




    ...............


    Toomie out
     
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  16. Toomie

    Toomie Rookie

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    Man, I'm gonna get fucking banned.
     
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  17. NickKmet

    NickKmet Regular

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    this topic is still open?


    oh toomie, you probably won't get banned. You should see some of the arguments that have been on these forums in the past. Man, those were nasty.
     
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  18. obso1337

    obso1337 Rookie

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    at least someone got it right
    im always surprised by how many people get that wrong
     
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  19. De-Ting

    De-Ting Rookie

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    Let's not point fingers...
     
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  20. Flaming_Tiki_God

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    :mrgreen:
     
    #40

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