Intelligent Design

[De-Ting]

Sorry for the crappy link from earlier. I was busy you know, but thanks a ton for making me feel like dirt. That always saves someone from killing themselves...(fyi I'd never commit suicide, just a side note)

Anyway, what is intelligent design? It's the theory that everything in the known universe is simply too perfect. The idea that something or rather someone must have had some if not total involvement in the formation of our world, solar system, galaxy and even the universe.

Like all theories, including the theory of evolution and the big bang, this cannot be proven...so don't try to disprove it. But feel free to discuss it and disagree with it.

Looking at the other possibilities, such as stars, planets and LIFE just appearing out of the blue with some random mixing of particles that combined with each other, intelligent design makes a little more sense out of it. Why would the particles come together and form life? Isn't it possible that they were pushed together? Brought together, instead of almost illogically floating into each other?

What are the odds that big balls of masses would appear and gain a gravitational pull, when they are just floating around in the nothingness of space? Why is our earth the only one we know of with the proper terms (distance from the sun, water, oxygen, carbon) for supporting life? If the universe could be formed, but only one planet out of the so many we know can support life, wouldn't it be possible that someone deemed it so?

Every detail of life...every living species...how can it be that a small clump of particles became the embodiment of perfection that we are now? Why are humans the only non-primitive form of intelligent life, if the same clump of particles formed us and all the rest of the life forms we see?

So, give that some thought, and let me know what you think.

 

[Tylzen]

Just because you can't prove it does not mean it is wrong.
Like for centuries Man have believed that the earth was flat, or on the back of a turtle.
But regardless of what Man would have thought this was still not true.
Religion is also a very dynamic thing, it changes, and today many religions adapt to people, instead of people adapting to it.

I am of the belief that all those things we can't figure out, are just a matter of time.
Perhaps centuries, or more, but an intelligent being, no.. Because then you have the problem with, who created it then? What was before that being?
Did "God or whatever" just appear out of thin air?

And I love the question:
If you told god to make an indestructible object, and later on told him to destroy it.
What would then happen? If he could destroy it, then it shows that he is not all powerful because the object was indestructible, but also if he does not, then he is still not all powerful, hehe.

Yeah intelligent design is just a desperate attempt for religious people to disprove or mix science into it all.

 

[De-Ting]

Only if you can proves something does it make it right. We know the earth is round, because we've proved it.

I believe that we cannot comprehend eternity. Everything we know has to have a start, and an end. But I believe that this intelligent being must be eternal. After all, it was an intelligence, not matter.

So please don't completely disregard this, as you might be prone to do.

 

[Tylzen]

I am on holiday, so I am not in my philosophy class, we just talked about how Man can't think about something that might be without space and time.

But it is all about belief. and I do not believe in it.

 

[MattAY]

I will wait for Paradox

 

[Rekkie7]

While I agree it'll never be disproven, or that we'll never fully understand the universe I don't think it's right to simply say "It's too complex for humans to understand...therefore a higher being must be responsbile".

It seems to me that intelligent design is a theory for people who know they arn't believe in anything for certain, but want to believe in something anyway. I'ld rather be agnostic...I know we'll never know anything for certain and therefore I don't look for anything to believe in.

 

[Paradox]

^^^geez way to put me on the spot.

some people just cant accept, believe, or acknowledge the notion that the universe could exist or come into being without guidance.

i could sit here and type out a whole wall of text about the big bang, the instances that support its theory, and other crap, but a quick glance at any of stephen hawkings books would explain it better than me. plus i just woke up and havent had my coffee yet. maybe ill get back here later and say more.

i agree with ty. just because we dont understand yet doesnt mean its magic. give us some more time and we'll get to the truth.

 

[maca2kx]

You make it almost too easy.

Anyway, what is intelligent design? It's the theory that everything in the known universe is simply too perfect. The idea that something or rather someone must have had some if not total involvement in the formation of our world, solar system, galaxy and even the universe.

True enough, I'd counter this, though, to say that Intelligent Design is also a flagrant attempt by religious types to get their dogma into schools under the guise of science.

Like all theories, including the theory of evolution and the big bang, this cannot be proven...so don't try to disprove it. But feel free to discuss it and disagree with it.

Nothing can be proven beyond any doubt whatsoever but it takes only one piece of contrary evidence to disprove something. I'll keep an eye out for people trying to disprove Intelligent Design and maybe try to help them.

Looking at the other possibilities, such as stars, planets and LIFE just appearing out of the blue with some random mixing of particles that combined with each other, intelligent design makes a little more sense out of it. Why would the particles come together and form life? Isn't it possible that they were pushed together? Brought together, instead of almost illogically floating into each other?

Maybe gravity or intermolecular forces? Maybe particles aren't just floating about with nothing acting upon them, maybe life is an inevitability given certain properties are in place and doesn't require the helping hand of god.

What are the odds that big balls of masses would appear and gain a gravitational pull, when they are just floating around in the nothingness of space?

Well considering how gravity works, how long the universe has been around and how big the place is I'd say it's more likely than you'd think.

Why is our earth the only one we know of with the proper terms (distance from the sun, water, oxygen, carbon) for supporting life? If the universe could be formed, but only one planet out of the so many we know can support life, wouldn't it be possible that someone deemed it so?

How do you know there's not an Earth like planet just out of our telescope's range? We know about an incredibly small area of the universe and planets are bloody tiny things. We're still discovering stars so how could you think we've seen enough planets to make the assumption that Earth is the only habitable planet out there?

Every detail of life...every living species...how can it be that a small clump of particles became the embodiment of perfection that we are now?

Life isn't perfect. Humans have an appendix which can rupture and burst, it serves no purpose other than to malfunction and kill us. We have a coccyx, we have muscles in our ears and the ability to raise our body hair when cold. All of these would be useful if we were still wild animals but are wasted now.

Why are humans the only non-primitive form of intelligent life, if the same clump of particles formed us and all the rest of the life forms we see?

Probably because the early homo sapiens hunted other early intelligent species to extinction. We are not the epitome of life, we're just occupying another niche like every other animal.

Sam

 

[Tylzen]

We had Neanderthals, they were also intelligent.
But we were the smarter ones.

 

[Trippysmurf]

This about sums up my opinion on this flawed theory:

 

[MikeyVassallo]

There isn't a thing in evolution science that disproves Intelligent Design.

 

[maca2kx]

There isn't a thing in evolution science that disproves Intelligent Design.

Perhaps, but it certainly throws into question the intelligence of the designer.

Sam

 

[TheNesMan]

De-Ting, please stop trying to act like you know science. Go to a library and take out a book on physics then maybe you'll realize the concept of gravity and how it can appear even in the vacuum of space!

 

[Yokiro]

Clearly humans are an evolved species as we're so far past reactionary survival methods that we apparently get bored enough to sit around and discuss this kind of mess. If the discussion was leaning towards wholly well reasoned, logical, and entirely intelligent, then I'd say, sure, there's probably intelligent design at work to create enlightened beings, but as is, the conflict still commonly seems like an advanced form of feces flinging, just with words, and over the internet.

 

[Tylzen]

Get a child...

Then surely you will see we evolved from the same "father" as the apes.

Spite of how many times I tell my son not to put his hands down in his diaper when he has made a poo-poo, he still does it..

Comfortable and warm?
Or ready to go on the internet?

Who know.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Like all theories, including the theory of evolution and the big bang, this cannot be proven...so don't try to disprove it. But feel free to discuss it and disagree with it.

The theory of evolution has been proven.

Why is our earth the only one we know of with the proper terms (distance from the sun, water, oxygen, carbon) for supporting life? If the universe could be formed, but only one planet out of the so many we know can support life, wouldn't it be possible that someone deemed it so?

You need to broaden your perception of life. Life could happen anywhere and thrive off of anything. Life could be made of antimatter. Life could be composed and based off of plenty of other elements, thrive in other temperatures and atmospheric pressures. Life can live under any condition. It's just that life on Earth happened to form and evolve in this certain way, but you can't think that this is the only way that life can exist.
Life at its simplest is just a self-replicating phenomenon. Life is not defined by carbon, oxygen, or water dependency.
As just a mild example, there are anaerobic (ie living without oxygen) bacteria that live in the Earth's crust who eat radioactive metals. They use these metals to gain energy in the same way humans use oxygen.

Every detail of life...every living species...how can it be that a small clump of particles became the embodiment of perfection that we are now?

Hey, Chis_Crime, remember when you called atheists arrogant in the God topic? What do you have to say to this?

Also, De-TIng, you never addressed your claim from the previous topic. Scientists are stating to realize that intelligent design must be necessary...?

 

[Lateralus]

I was about to seriously rage when I read this post.

Tylzen and Maca, thanks for saving me from writing a wall text on this topic.

De-Ting, if you want to question evolution, the big bang theory and so on, do some research on it as well! Study every book that seems relevant on the matter, since you've written an elaborate essay on it then surely you are genuinely interested.

I'm doing a module on immunology and we looked at how antigens and antibodies constantly evolve at random and get passed on to the next generation when a disease is prevalent. Our prof described how this (complex) mechanism is a powerful tool AGAINST intelligent design, don't take it from me, study it yourself, see the work that's being done and decide on your own.

As for the chances of life in outer space? Consider this video:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7wNQw12l8&feature=related


There are nearly INFINITE stars in space, with their own planets the criteria that govern how life exists aren't strict.

(edit, the pic I used got munched by photobucket, )

 

[Chris_Crime]

Every detail of life...every living species...how can it be that a small clump of particles became the embodiment of perfection that we are now?

Hey, Chis_Crime, remember when you called atheists arrogant in the God topic? What do you have to say to this?

What do I have to say? Obviously it's an arrogant statement. Without knowing for certain, every thing said comes off as arrogant to someone, especially when it flies in the face of another's beliefs. So you have a right to call it arrogant if you choose to do so.
With that said, I still side on atheists being the more arrogant of the two. I don't see Christians or Muslims attacking atheists as much as I see atheists attacking Christians and Muslims (online, with rallies, etc.). If you're gonna say something about a bombing, be abortion center or an embassy building, remember these people are hardly religious at all. They're fanatical extremists aka crazy mother fuckers.

I wasn't looking to take a stance on what's right or wrong in the God topic, but to shed light on how wrong it is to infringe upon another's beliefs.
Fine, it's good for discussion, but the same is horrible when acted upon. Religious persecution of any kind just ain't my bag, baby.

No one answered my "What If?" question in the Satan topic. I'm just looking for any kind of answer: funny, stupid, serious, dismissive --whatever! Just someone acknowledge me! T_T

About evolution: I'm cool with birds coming from dinosaurs because it makes all the sense in the world to me, but if Man came from Monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Why do monkeys still exist? Shouldn't they have all gone extinct (like the dinosaur)?

 

[Wes]

Why are we here? I don't know, you don't know.

I think I'm going to use that response from now on in these threads. Everybody has a theory, but that's all it is. If you believe in that theory then you're awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Every detail of life...every living species...how can it be that a small clump of particles became the embodiment of perfection that we are now?

Hey, Chis_Crime, remember when you called atheists arrogant in the God topic? What do you have to say to this?

What do I have to say? Obviously it's an arrogant statement. Without knowing for certain, every thing said comes off as arrogant to someone, especially when it flies in the face of another's beliefs. So you have a right to call it arrogant if you choose to do so.
With that said, I still side on atheists being the more arrogant of the two. I don't see Christians or Muslims attacking atheists as much as I see atheists attacking Christians and Muslims (online, with rallies, etc.). If you're gonna say something about a bombing, be abortion center or an embassy building, remember these people are hardly religious at all. They're fanatical extremists aka crazy mother fuckers.

I wasn't looking to take a stance on what's right or wrong in the God topic, but to shed light on how wrong it is to infringe upon another's beliefs.
Fine, it's good for discussion, but the same is horrible when acted upon. Religious persecution of any kind just ain't my bag, baby.

No one answered my "What If?" question in the Satan topic. I'm just looking for any kind of answer: funny, stupid, serious, dismissive --whatever! Just someone acknowledge me! T_T

About evolution: I'm cool with birds coming from dinosaurs because it makes all the sense in the world to me, but if Man came from Monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Why do monkeys still exist? Shouldn't they have all gone extinct (like the dinosaur)?

I have so much to say to every statement made in these 3 recent religion topics. I struggle to restrain myself...Perhaps I'll get to your statement in the Lucifer topic soon.

First, you need to get out more. You mentioned before that you don't really go to church. Well, before coming here to college, I was at church every Sunday. I come from a very religious family of preachers. Go to any church, and you'll always come across condescending comments that puts down sinners. Non-believers are included in the term "sinner." Even when they don't vocally say it, Christians look down upon atheists. Remember, only Christians are the "saved" ones. Christians are to take it upon themselves to promote the godly way of life. This is Biblically backed. These things alone are arrogant. Also, what De-Ting said is textbook arrogance. If you fail to acknowledge that nothing can be more arrogant with that statement, then you are obviously biased.
Also, you'll notice that I'm never offensive when it comes to these arguments. I always play defense (responding to other's misconceptions). I'm certainly no aggressor, and I believe I said before in the previous religion war thing that I'd never want to strip anyone of their faith. It helps people in instances. A man in jail may only have Jesus to rely on. I'd never take that away. In contrast, you were the first in the God topic to start attacking other people. Don't you dare call me arrogant or offensive.
Another thing you need to consider is that it's this (go with me here) "false" religion that is holding the world back from logical progression. Stem cell research, something with obvious benefits is still It is outlawed because of religion. In the meantime, there are people suffering because of the delay. It's because of circumstances like these (and plenty of other oppressive things) that you would see atheists trying to take down the theist grip of the world.

One more thing: monkeys still exist because they still still have a place in their niches, and they weren't wiped out by some catastrophic even like mammoths and supposedly dinosaurs were. The fact that you're questioning this shows that you don't even fundamentally understand how evolution works. Why are you arguing against it then? You don't know what you're talking about...