Sexuality

[UrbanMasque]

FTG, lured me into bed by telling me he loved me.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Well16BITassassin, I welcome you to the forums, but I just have to disagree.
I HATE the word "n*gger," and it's not necessarily because I'm offended by it. It's because it's simply a hateful word bringing up only bad memories (the memories aren't really my own, I admit, but still...). I hate it when white people use it. I hate it when black people use it. It's such ignorant language that would only drive the blacks and the non-blacks to be even more divided.
"Faggot" is very much the same. No matter how much you try to normalize it, it's still a hateful word. Homophobes would continue to use it in disrespectful ways, and if not, they'll find a new term.
These words only serve to emphasize social differences in the most negative of ways. The objectivity behind the word "homosexual" is a much more respectful alternative.
Really, it's a terrible idea.
But welcome, anyway.

And as you can see jc00l, once I do rape you, you'll be a very satisfied customer. I'm doing the world a public service.

 

[keepithowitis]

FTG, lured me into bed by telling me he loved me.

Really? You shallow b****. All he did for me was hide under my bed and start moaning.

 

[16BITassassin]

I was sort of half joking about the whole faggot thing, but honestly, I think it would do some good to have some way for people of the people of the LGBT community to identify themselves without sounding like they're on the inside of a petri dish. Perhaps if there was some slang that could develop within the community for people to identify themselves. I'm perfectly comfortable referring to myself as a faggot, but I understand that a lot of people may not be. But fumbling about the matter while trying to remain as politically correct as possible will get us no where, and garner absolutely no respect if we tip toe around attempting not to offend anyone.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Think of is this way:

African-American = Homosexual
Black = Gay
N***er = Faggot

The slang has already been developed. That's what the word 'gay' is. The word "queer" is also on the rise now, but I hate that word too. Not only is it similar to 'faggot', but it just sounds terrible and awkward.

But fumbling about the matter while trying to remain as politically correct as possible will get us no where, and garner absolutely no respect if we tip toe around attempting not to offend anyone.

The blacks of the 60s wouldn't have gained respect if their movements were violent. They would likely have perpetuated the stereotype of being barbarians. Violence is offensive, obviously, so being offensive would gain no respect at all. Resilience and strength will.

 

[16BITassassin]

I'm not asking for violence, I'm asking for militancy. There needs to be some strength behind the LGBT community. If the world imagines us as they see on Will and Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight guy, sure, many people would like the gay community, but we would turn into a giant joke. There needs to be some toxicity to a statement to make it bold, and to make people listen. You must keep in mind, throughout the 60s black movement, sure their were completely peaceful sides of the fight like Doctor King, but there were also sides like Malcolm X, who demanded respect. Sure, some of his efforts were misguided, but in a time when blacks were so greatly mistreated, he had every right in the world to be volatile. Though not to the same degree, I believe we are in the same situation, and such, there has to be some demanding power behind our voice. We're at the point where gently trying to explain our lifestyle to the world will not be understood by all, so we can at least attempt to be taken seriously.

And yeah, queer is a pretty gross word. The only people that use that word are people who haven't seen gays their entire life, or people who aren't ever going to be able to admit that they're gay.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

I realize you weren't asking for violence, I was merely making a statement that being disrespectful and overly confrontational is a bad thing. Militancy is still not something I want. A synonym for militancy is belligerence. I don't want a war. I believe in peace, bitch.
However, I'm still ready for a revolution.
And I certainly understand your point about being a joke. It's a concern of mine, but you must also understand that this happens to be the culture gay people have somehow chosen to adopt. If you watch something like The Original Kings of Comedy (4 black comedians joking about black-focused issues in front of a large black stadium--filling crowd) it's much the same. Black people have formed a culture. It's not accepted by all, but it's still there. It's not necessarily negative, it's just kind of a tool of inclusion just like the N-word kind of is these days. Anyway, I think the problem lies less in those TV-shows and more in the general flamboyancy seen in things like Pride parades. THOSE are jokes...
Also, I'm well aware of Malcolm X, but you must remember between him and MLK, who garnered the most respect and who got further.

But if you were to lead the force, how would you plan on being taken seriously? You say that there must be power behind the voice. As far as I know, there are only 3 types of power: Economic, coercive, and ideological. I feel as if you're leaning towards coercive which is a very negative kind of power filled with threats and eventual violence. And although you may not be explicitly asking for violence, you're obviously leaning in that direction, and if you respect Mr. X so much, his "by any means necessary" approach may push you within the violent territory.

I think it's weird that I keep mentioning black people when I talk about gay rights...

 

[16BITassassin]

Lol, ok, I think we've reached somewhat of a common ground. There needs to be a gay revolution. And the silly flamboyancy must be abandoned, or at least take a backseat.

I'd really like to be involved in some kind of cultural movement, but it just seems like everyone's took scared of being judged, and then whenever anything does get started, everyone's too horny or too old to stay focused. I think the question at this point is, how would one actually go about getting enough people to take a stand, or at least start the process.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Ah, and finally we do reach common ground. I agreed with all of that.
But I've no idea how to start the process. Typically in these situations, there's some leader or at least someone/thing to organize people, yes? Do we have something like that? No. Would you like to volunteer?
Stand atop the highest point of wherever you live, shout, "My name is [insert name here], and I'll be the leader of the gay revolution!!!" and they'll come. They will come...

 

[Trippysmurf]

Think of is this way:

African-American = Homosexual
Black = Gay
N***er = Faggot

Sorry to interject here, but I happen to have a number of black friends who get upset if you call them African-American. They happen to be of Haitian or Jamaican descent and as such prefer to be called Haitian American/Jamaican American or black.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

I'm well aware of the fallacy of the term. I don't like it either. It doesn't properly include all black people and it also includes white Africans.
My high school valedictorian was a white South African and on I think her SATs she labeled herself as African American. Technically, she's right.
I believe the point of the term is that it refers to all black people as descendants of Africa brought over to various countries via slavery. Hence we're all "Africans" even your Haitian and Jamaican friends. It's really a flawed way of thinking, especially considering that the origin of all mankind is likely Africa.

The reason I equated it with the word homosexual is because it's the term that is widely perceived to be politically correct (even though, "African-American" is kind of not). That's why I always say black.

 

[16BITassassin]

Even then, I think homosexual and African American draw a fitting connection. I feel a little offended whenever anybody says homosexual or bisexual to label me. As of the time, bisexual is the only way to really label myself accurately, but sexuality really isn't that simple. I think sexuality reflects what is going on in a person's life, and just having it summed up in these quick little snap on titles seems so disgustingly cold and official. Two years ago, I was nearly completely straight. But over time, I've warmed up to the idea of homo erotica, and my idea of it all has completely changed and flipped around. I'd feel a lot better with a general label of being in a certain direction (Note to self: Create a sexually ambiguous slang term, preferably a noun.)

As for the whole gay revolution thing, if there ever would be a leader, it would have to be someone with charisma, sexual appeal, and great debate skill. Sex appeal would be necessary, I think, to garner mass media attention. If there ever would be a leader like this, they would have to reach beyond the gay sub culture, and grab the nation's attention.

 

[ZankerH]

Hi, I've always liked GR, but never really bothered to join. I saw this forum, and I recently came out as bisexual, so I sorta wanted to give my input on the topic.

<rest of post>

I'm not at all familiar with American culture, but isn't Negroes using the n-word gradually leading to it being accepted as a "normal" expression again? And I'm pretty sure the homophobe crazies regularly use "faggot" without any sort of social backslash (besides the usual collective facepalm), so the only thing your idea achieves is making an insult a part of everyday speech.

 

[16BITassassin]

Thats the point though, I'd like gay culture to adopt something not overly political correct, because so far, all we really have is homosexual and gay, both of which I think are antiquated terms. I'd like to see something that people can call themselves, and not sound like a they're talking about something so scientific and impersonal. I like the word fag, I'm not asking that other people use it, but I like the way it sounds and I'd refer to myself that way. If there could be some other word to use, great, but its pretty limited to slurs right now.

And I don't want to be "queer" anytime soon.

 

[keepithowitis]

I think the political people should accept it. They've torn apart over ten thousand weddings with the passing of Proposition 8. The least they can do is label them correctly.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

I'm not at all familiar with American culture, but isn't Negroes using the n-word gradually leading to it being accepted as a "normal" expression again? And I'm pretty sure the homophobe crazies regularly use "faggot" without any sort of social backslash (besides the usual collective facepalm), so the only thing your idea achieves is making an insult a part of everyday speech.

This seemed to be directed at 16bit, but I'll answer anyway because I have nothing better to do.

As far as I know, the concept of the recycling of the N-word is to erase the guilt that came along with it so that we can own such a word. What hurt us before will now make us stronger. It will never be normalized. There's so much baggage that comes with it. Besides, people who use the N-word (as well as people who don't) always trash white people who say it.
I don't fully understand it, but at least I think that's what the idea behind it is...
It's funny that the killing of this word was part of what the blacks of the past were trying to do, and yet now people try to tear down what they were trying to accomplish by putting it back into normal vocabulary.

And yes, you don't see anyone getting beaten up or ostracized for using the word "faggot" unless they're politicians or something.

And I'm not going to accept being called a "fag" anytime soon (or ever).
Really, I hate all labels. Every single one sounds terrible. I don't want to be a part of any of them.

 

[Rakon]

FTG, I think it's disgusting when black people call each other the n-word. In my opinion, they are normalizing it, and if they are being so rude to each other (like you said, the word has a lot of baggage), how can they be offended if a white person uses it? It makes no sense to me that black people refer to each other is such a demeaning manner, yet no one else can do it. To me, it's promoting the word and keeping it alive, as well as all the terrible history that word has.

 

[16BITassassin]

Just a quick note, too: I've noticed that N***** as a casual term is more associated with the culture one was raised in, rather than the actual race. I used to live in a very urban part of Dallas, which had a majority of Mexicans. At my school, it wasn't at all unusual or offensive when they said it, mostly because they where the main minority and they had grown up knowing that, and they grew up knowing that as a casual word they had the merit of saying because of their culture. I've even heard a few white kids saying it, and it seemed appropriate because of their persona and the crowd they were a part of.

 

[16BITassassin]

FTG, I think it's disgusting when black people call each other the n-word. In my opinion, they are normalizing it, and if they are being so rude to each other (like you said, the word has a lot of baggage), how can they be offended if a white person uses it? It makes no sense to me that black people refer to each other is such a demeaning manner, yet no one else can do it. To me, it's promoting the word and keeping it alive, as well as all the terrible history that word has.

You have to understand, its not so simple as that. Not everyone grows up in an environment where its thought of as such a terrible word. Many people grow up in all black communities, where the use of that word is so common, you never even think its all that bad. People aren't trying to demean each other, its just another accepted part of vocabulary. How offensive a word is is all in context of the culture and environment surrounding it.

 

[Rainemaida]

Ive had relations with girls from many nations
Ive made passes at women of all classes
And just because youre gay I wont turn you away
If you stick around Im sure that we can find some common ground

Sexuality - strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality - your laws do not apply to me

A nuclear submarine sinks off the coast of sweden
Headlines give me headaches when I read them
I had an uncle who once played for red star belgrade
He said some things are really left best unspoken
But I prefer it all to be out in the open

Sexuality - strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality - your laws do not apply to me
Sexuality - dont threaten me with misery
Sexuality - I demand equality

Im sure that everybody knows how much my body hates me
It lets me down most every time and makes me rash and hasty
I feel a total jerk before your naked body of work

Im getting weighed down with all this information
Safe sex doesnt mean no sex it just means use your imagination
Stop playing with yourselves in hard currency hotels
I look like robert de niro, I drive a mitsubishi zero

Sexuality - strong and warm and wild and free
Sexuality - your laws do not apply to me
Sexuality - come eat and drink and sleep with me
Sexuality - we can be what we want to be