Chris_Crime
Rookie
what's that one black chick doing in the video? what was that about? i mean seriously, did they cut away to a different school?
You NEED to see this
- Thread starter UrbanMasque
- Start date
UrbanMasque
Everyone Wears a Mask
^
.pwned.
malakian said:
.pwned.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
I would say to try and prove something that can't be proven defies logic as well.
intoTheRain
Regular
keepithowitis said:
i'm not on either side, i sit comfortably in the middle.
no more than a year ago scientists believed that all the great extinctions were caused by an object colliding with earth, they now only believe one was, the rest were caused by bacteria and algae.
a couple years ago we were told egg yolks were terrible for you and should be eaten in extreme moderation. now you'd be silly to throw out a yolk as its where 95% of the eggs nutrients are and does not in fact increase cholesterol.
a year ago vitamin C was the wonder vitamin, now it's pretty much been swept under the rug and you're crazy if you're not supplementing with vitamin D or getting 15 minutes a day in the sun.
I've read many an article where the same object was carbon dated twice and the difference in age was in hundreds of thousands of years.
i find it all intriguing to say the least, and love to hear about it. but with all the wishy washy scientific theories that change on a near daily basis, i can hardly call a creationist an idiot...
yet.
everything we know today 100 years down the road we'll be like "lol remember when we thought ______________"
not saying all science is flawed, as it clearly isn't. the computer i'm typing this on and the truck i just drove to the gym in and the gum i'm chewing proves that. but all these things can be created and proven and used. theory will ALWAYS be theory, and i think to whole heartedly believe something someone tells you happened billions of years in the past based on a test they deem accurate is just as silly as believing the earth is 6,000 years old. especially when these theories change more often than i change my underwear.
take it for what it is, but don't hate on someone else for their beliefs. any belief is built on an extremely shaky foundation. all it takes is one minor microscopic flaw in one of the millions of theories and ideas it took to make it to where we are today and everything we think we know comes crumbling to the ground.
i just can't call anyone an idiot for their beliefs. nothing is far fetched imo.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
IntotheRain and I agree again.
Signs of the Apocalypse.
Signs of the Apocalypse.
UrbanMasque
Everyone Wears a Mask
StalfrosCC said:
You can't PROVE an absolute creator or evolution.. BUT you can use logic and reason to deduce a few options and eliminate some theories as answers. At that point it becomes probability. Talk to fundamentalists and their version of events is 100% accurate.. my take on their events are that they are 0% accurate.
IntoTheRain said:
No.. you can't play in the middle ground, well you can't but I will include you in the "idiot" bubble. 1st.. True, theories are just that. THEORIES, they cant be proven or disproven - but Theories have withstood scientific inquiry and still hold as an unresolved possibility. Creationism has FAILED! 2nd.. Carbon dating is as accurate as ANY tech tool we have available to date organic material (there are ranges of its accuracy but those ranges are still within 10,000 - 50,000 years. its not millions but i can live with that) - i don't want to explain it b/c it prob take me a month to talk you through it - but wikipedia give a good explanation http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/carbon-dating.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating. 3rd, I dont think its fair to compare a health magazine that says the atkins diet works vs. eggs w/o yolks as a theory in the same sentence with evolution. Stop getting your health tips from Yahoo News, and read a scholarly journal. Everyones body is different so they react to certain things differently.. In comparison to REAL science, human evolution only has one origin and discovering its roots will cover EVERYONE!
MikeyVassallo
Regular
Eh. I'd say that their views aren't as mainstream as people would like to believe.
I'd count myself as "christian" and I'm not a creationist. I'd have to say I've never met a creationist in all my time as a christian going to churches or meeting other christians. The only time I ever see them is on the internet when somebody, usually an athiest, is trying to show how they are ruining the country.
What I'm trying to say is, we live in a country where we can believe anything we want and to stifle another person's belief is folly.
Now, if that were a video of "creationists" running through a museum painting red X's on exhibits, destroying property and hurting people in the name of their belief then I'd say they probably need to be locked up, but the freedom to be stupidly sardonic in a museum is one that is protected in this country.
This really isn't a scientific discussion since what they believe isn't science and what they are doing isn't affecting science.
Now, the textbook debate in Texas is one that we should probably discuss. One wacko has already been voted out during a primary of the school board that writes the next edition of a major textbooks that schools around the country utilize and you will find that as more and more of these non-mainstream ideas try to get ushered in to the decision making more and more of these wackos will get voted out.
Honestly, if the rest of the country just produced their own text books they wouldn't be in this situation to start with.
I'd count myself as "christian" and I'm not a creationist. I'd have to say I've never met a creationist in all my time as a christian going to churches or meeting other christians. The only time I ever see them is on the internet when somebody, usually an athiest, is trying to show how they are ruining the country.
What I'm trying to say is, we live in a country where we can believe anything we want and to stifle another person's belief is folly.
Now, if that were a video of "creationists" running through a museum painting red X's on exhibits, destroying property and hurting people in the name of their belief then I'd say they probably need to be locked up, but the freedom to be stupidly sardonic in a museum is one that is protected in this country.
This really isn't a scientific discussion since what they believe isn't science and what they are doing isn't affecting science.
Now, the textbook debate in Texas is one that we should probably discuss. One wacko has already been voted out during a primary of the school board that writes the next edition of a major textbooks that schools around the country utilize and you will find that as more and more of these non-mainstream ideas try to get ushered in to the decision making more and more of these wackos will get voted out.
Honestly, if the rest of the country just produced their own text books they wouldn't be in this situation to start with.
UrbanMasque
Everyone Wears a Mask
Stal.. If your a christian YOU ARE A CREATIONIST! your faith requires you to believe it in order to be ushered into the pearly gates.
You cant separate what you believe and what you don't believe. and if you don't believe it then your fooling yourself and making it hard to get these stupid creationist books out of the classroom.
They wont get voted out b/c people who play the fence will tip the balance in their favor. These zealots are already taking office and starting to indoctrinate kids with their nonsense.
You cant separate what you believe and what you don't believe. and if you don't believe it then your fooling yourself and making it hard to get these stupid creationist books out of the classroom.
They wont get voted out b/c people who play the fence will tip the balance in their favor. These zealots are already taking office and starting to indoctrinate kids with their nonsense.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
Why are you putting limits on my faith? You obviously don't know anything about it.
The creation story in the Torah or the first book of the old testament isn't science. It isn't a history. It is a parable of how the line of Isrealites were created.
So yeah... you obviously know dick about my religion.
The creation story in the Torah or the first book of the old testament isn't science. It isn't a history. It is a parable of how the line of Isrealites were created.
So yeah... you obviously know dick about my religion.
Bretimus_v2
So tired.
Eh, Creationists vs. Scientists.
Science is the best reasoned out theory at the current moment, which means it's fallible and usually replaceable. Let's take gravity for instance. For the highschool kids you'll use Newton's plug and chug and for the Grad students you can use Einstein's headache of an explanation of gravity according to the General Theory of Relativity and all that fun with spacetime and field equations. So essentially we have two working theories: Newton's works and can still be utilized, but for intricate work Einstein's explanation is of course better. And before, in between, and after you've had tens of other well-founded, defended and esteemed theories that were used or considered (Aristotle, LeSage, Whitehead, Sakharov, Brans-Dicke, etc.). What I'm trying to get across is the same as Rain. We cann't get caught up by the statistical analysis and sit here saying that we've proved this and that true, Look at us, mighty man! But that's not to say it's not applicable and an acceptable Theory.
Creationism is another beast. But didn't we just go over something akin to this in a Noah's Ark thread. EDIT: Also, the creation of the universe is a story of how God brings Order out of Chaos, gives Purpose to His creations and all sorts of other things that I don't want to go in to right now. As such, it gives no details, it gives spiritual guidance. The Bible isn't a textbook. But if you want to argue then, yeah, go for it.
Science is the best reasoned out theory at the current moment, which means it's fallible and usually replaceable. Let's take gravity for instance. For the highschool kids you'll use Newton's plug and chug and for the Grad students you can use Einstein's headache of an explanation of gravity according to the General Theory of Relativity and all that fun with spacetime and field equations. So essentially we have two working theories: Newton's works and can still be utilized, but for intricate work Einstein's explanation is of course better. And before, in between, and after you've had tens of other well-founded, defended and esteemed theories that were used or considered (Aristotle, LeSage, Whitehead, Sakharov, Brans-Dicke, etc.). What I'm trying to get across is the same as Rain. We cann't get caught up by the statistical analysis and sit here saying that we've proved this and that true, Look at us, mighty man! But that's not to say it's not applicable and an acceptable Theory.
Creationism is another beast. But didn't we just go over something akin to this in a Noah's Ark thread. EDIT: Also, the creation of the universe is a story of how God brings Order out of Chaos, gives Purpose to His creations and all sorts of other things that I don't want to go in to right now. As such, it gives no details, it gives spiritual guidance. The Bible isn't a textbook. But if you want to argue then, yeah, go for it.
intoTheRain
Regular
UrbanMasque said:
i used the examples i did because they ranged from small to large in scale.
i realize egg yolks don't have much to do with the age of the earth, but wasn't 100% certain until you pointed it out, thanks.
otherwise, you are the reason i choose to sit in the middle ground, not hating on either end of the spectrum. i enjoy not coming off as an opinionated jackass. i won't cut someone down unless fact is involved. everyone reserves the right to their own opinion.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
The point is this, one group of people think another group of people are ruining things and visa versa.
Two of the smartest men I know that both happen to be science professors are also Christians whom I went to church with most of my life. This doesn't make them evil creationists like Urban is trying to paint all Christians. They have no agenda or angle. They aren't trying to preach Jesus in their college classrooms. One is the head of his biology department where a main focus is... OMG, EVOLUTION.
So seriously, what this is boiling down to on both the mico scale of these forums and a macro level of the rest of the debate is a total misunderstanding of what is really being talked about.
A fringe group of people are stupidly mistaking the first book of the Bible with an actual history of events and a second group of people are doing the same thing and pitting it against science.
All of these people are stupid.
Two of the smartest men I know that both happen to be science professors are also Christians whom I went to church with most of my life. This doesn't make them evil creationists like Urban is trying to paint all Christians. They have no agenda or angle. They aren't trying to preach Jesus in their college classrooms. One is the head of his biology department where a main focus is... OMG, EVOLUTION.
So seriously, what this is boiling down to on both the mico scale of these forums and a macro level of the rest of the debate is a total misunderstanding of what is really being talked about.
A fringe group of people are stupidly mistaking the first book of the Bible with an actual history of events and a second group of people are doing the same thing and pitting it against science.
All of these people are stupid.
NickKmet
Regular
To me the more troubling issue here is the perception that Christianity (or faith in general) is specifically at odds with science and has to be on principle. The creationist idea is probably the most narrow of possible interpretations of the bible, and ignores the poetic quality of genesis. I think these people are entitled to their opinions, but the fact that they are unable to even listen to and comprehend other arguments on the topic is more troubling than anything. Faith in itself is not bad; cultish indoctrination of faith and faith tradition is. That's what I see here.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
Nick with some bonus points.
Bretimus_v2
So tired.
Wow, this thread is rolling quickly. I just edited my post and five posts are already up.
intoTheRain
Regular
Bretimus_v2 said:
they tend to do that
never knew stal was a christian, learn something new every day.
also never expected urban to be the typical internet keyboard warrior when it came to such a topic.
NickKmet
Regular
StalfrosCC said:
Thanks Stal. I go to a private Presbyterian University and what I said is basically the point that almost all of my theology professors here bring up. Science and Christianity do not have to be a world apart. St. Augustine himself said that God could be better understood through our knowledge of the world and empiricism.
All this science is evil crap is total bullshit.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
there are christians who are idiots. there are athiests who are idiots.
I'm a fan of not being an idiot.
I'm a fan of not being an idiot.
Similar threads
