So this whole Health Care Reform thing...

[LinksOcarina]

Once my job goes for break tomorrow and I am out of work I can actually read this ver batum and see what it says.

And I have seen a lot of provisions on the bill, I know whats in it, but in the end it is still incomplete and needs to be worked on. It just needs to be implemented first.

 

[Ted_Wolff]

ok

 

[blobbohen]

Ted-Wolff, I LOVE YOU!

Have fun reading!

I had fun reading!

But hey, I'm credible now!

You certainly are! After getting you to actually read some of the law, which was my job, I would now counsel you to call your Senator and tell him to vote "NAY" on healthcare reform. Wait a minute! http ://bit.ly/9mHTA8 . It's too late! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

http://bit.ly/QpCYz

Have you considered running for office?

 

[ShadeTail]

The Affordable Care Act isn't liberal enough. It should have been either Canadian-style single payer, British-style nationalized, or French-style combination of the two (France has the world's best health care system).

That said, the ACA is a huge improvement over the status quo. It will serve as a good foundation for more effective reform as we start tinkering with it.

There's a House bill going around right now to open Medicare to anyone who wants to buy into it at cost, the 'Medicare You Can Buy Into' bill. It would be a simple and effective public option.

As for arguments about the mandate...it was republicans who came up with the idea, way back in 1993, and it was included in the ACA by the democrats. After which, the republicans started bad-mouthing their own idea and claiming there weren't any republican ideas included in the ACA.

Anyway, if you're going to force the Insurance companies to cover anyone regardless of pre-existing conditions, you must insist everyone get into the coverage pool. Otherwise, people will wait until they specifically need insurance for some sickness or injury and *then* purchase insurance. So only already-sick people will keep insurance all the time, forcing the insurers to pay out more than they take in. This would make costs sky-rocket even more than they already are.

So if you outlaw discrimination for pre-existing conditions, you must have a mandate to keep the costs down. And if you're going to mandate insurance, you must have subsidies to help people pay for it. And if you're going to have subsidies, you must pay for them with tax increases and/or spending cuts elsewhere. And if...etc. All of these things are interconnected, so you must have all of them together.

 

[MikeyVassallo]

ok

\

Ted. I was wrong to keep you from arguing. You may continue.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

The Affordable Care Act isn't liberal enough. It should have been either Canadian-style single payer, British-style nationalized, or French-style combination of the two (France has the world's best health care system).
.

France...meh.

Also, "liberal" is the wrong word, root is liberty, which most of us correlate with freedom of choice, etc. Those three systems give no choice. Socialized is a better word, or social liberalism, which it falls under I believe.

Also, I strongly believe population size and spending has a huge impact on how medical care is managed by the government; look at canada, population 35 mil, and we pay for their defense, of course they'll have a nice system. United States, population (probably will be) around 310 million, policeman of the world (which we should stop). I don't think it will be pretty.

 

[ShadeTail]

France...meh.

Yeah...? They do have the best health care system in the world. That's a fact. Do you not want a good health care system?

Also, "liberal" is the wrong word, root is liberty, which most of us correlate with freedom of choice, etc. Those three systems give no choice. Socialized is a better word, or social liberalism, which it falls under I believe.

Liberal is the correct word, because only liberals are actually acknowledging how bad U.S. health care really works so that we can start fixing it. And those systems give people much more freedom of choice, because they aren't tied down to a job merely for the health insurance. And they don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical bills. And they won't be discriminated against for pre-existing conditions. And their insurance won't be canceled in a recision when they get sick and actually need it. And hospitals won't deny them care merely from worry that their insurer won't pay.

Constantly worrying about your entire life being ruined just because you have to choose between medical care and your rent? If that's your idea of freedom, you can keep it.

Also, I strongly believe population size and spending has a huge impact on how medical care is managed by the government; look at canada, population 35 mil, and we pay for their defense, of course they'll have a nice system. United States, population (probably will be) around 310 million, policeman of the world (which we should stop). I don't think it will be pretty.

You can believe what you wish. The fact remains that the current health care mess is already pretty ugly. Making health care a for-profit industry has resulted in unconscionable cruelty and suffering for millions of Americans. And every American is already paying for it. Every person who can't pay and ends up in an ER is paid for by all the rest of us, through increased costs and taxes. So we already have socialized health care, except that it is a hideously expensive and inefficient form of socialized health care.

Is this the system you want to keep? Even if you can't get past the Randian idea of "I've got mine, so screw you, Jack," basic greed if nothing else should make you want to reform to a system where you pay less. And, whether you like it or not, all those other countries do have systems where, per-capita, they pay much less and get much better results. So we might as well copy what they do.

 

[Chris_Crime]

CC, not quite sure what to make of your post.

From yesterday's episode of Real Time With Bill Maher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_eLRDCbxo4#t=2m19s - about 4:24.

also
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/27/ ... tml?hpt=T1
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36067527/ns ... hite_house
^^the President continues to impress by working towards improving our country. Business as usual? hmm, not bad. Is this what it's like? Feels good!

 

[astrowabbit]

I just feel sorry for our American friends. With the power of big companies influencing (read buying) the policy makers (read puppet politicians) you just know someone is getting screwed and it's usually the people. If the richest country on this planet can't afford universal health care then that country must be in a hell of a mess financially.

But if this plan does indeed help those who need it the most in a cost-effective way then I guess something is better than nothing.

 

[Chris_Crime]

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
edit: disregard the above

Money, it's a gas

 

[MikeyVassallo]

Yeah, that Doc had to get his MD in South America, he couldn't even hack it in US medical schools.

 

[TheZoomZoomKid]

The response to it tells me that Obama should have tackled education reform first. Overall it's a pretty bad bill because it doesn't the inefficiencies that make the American health-care system so damn expensive.

 

[Lien]

that doctor's job is to watch you pee? Man he got better things to do then complain about Obama if you ask me.