So this whole Health Care Reform thing...

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by MikeyVassallo, Mar 22, 2010.

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HCR Bill, How do you feel?

  1. This is a good thing and here is why...

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  2. This is a bad thing and I plan on explaining why...

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  3. I feel this is both good and bad and this is why...

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  4. I don't know or care enough to comment and I'm probably a drain on society.

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  1. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    Not as stupid as the emotional pleading about some "lazy slob," whose incident is few, and very far between.

    There's a lot you can do to reduce your health risk. To 0%? No, but surely many things more sensible than a) striking backroom deals with insurance companies (which the Obama Admin. did early on), b) forcing people to buy insurance, c) protecting drug companies' profits, d) preventing people from buying certain insurance, e) forcing insurance companies to cover certain "ailments", f) forcing people to pay for others' health care.

    In the end, this bill is "business as usual".

    Also, if this bill is so sympathetic, how about giving me a "kickback" on a medical bill I recently paid in full because part of my procedure wasn't covered by insurance due to being part of a "pre-existing condition"? I mean, it was a month ago! So because I'm a month early to the new "benevolence" of our government I'm s.o.l.? How compassionate!
     
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  2. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    ^It actually doesn't kick into effect until, what is it, 2013, 2014? Beg for compassion then Ted.
     
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  3. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    Ha, that's another thing.

    What's with bills that don't take effect for a while? The stimulus bill was the same way, providing little at first and then more later.

    It's like, "Hey! Let's pass this bill now and get the attention for passing it now, but let other people who may be elected in our place years down the road deal with the actual 'problems' of it."
     
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  4. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    Yeah, having health care is overrated.
     
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  5. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    It SO is. Rarely use it until you actually need it; I'd rather pay 5k for a new jaw now rather then pay 10k over a period of 10 years right up until I lost the jaw, in which case I was hit with a huge bill in order to get that new jaw because the screws required for my new jaw aren't covered. There's a much better system, but we didn't get it. (to understand this situation pretend the guy from KOTOR was writing this.)

    The more the people become dependent on the state, the less capable they are. If humanity wants to advance as a whole and catch some hot Quarian ass, we need to advance; social welfare of this scale is regression.
     
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  6. King_Arthur

    King_Arthur Rookie

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    Some repubs like to put holds on anything not their idea, as does some dems. These bills could have been passed a long time ago, but as you saw last night and will continue to see, it's nothing but a joke, it's not about the people, its about winning or losing. Plain and simple. lol Democrat or repub !

    Did anybody seriously think Obama was going to change anything in his 1st year ? If you did then, Jesus MAN ! Be rational and instead of bickering and fighting him, help him. Stop your people from yelling out names and racial slurs that have nothing to do with whats going on. Dems got bashed for attacking Bush throughout the previous years and dems got called out on it, now stop acting like children. You guys, like seriously !

    Watch what happens next, everybody gonna try to fight this instead of working on JOBS. Lets keep it moving people. I think the bill isn't perfect, but it's the best we got and damn it, if you don't like it come up with something else. If we can't fix these problems quickly without bitching and whining, then Obama will not have the chance to accomplish anything ! Lets help "OUR" President. America is still the best f*cking place to live and I love my country, if you love country, stop fighting and come up with a resolution ! It's getting ridiculous ! Rallies and Sarah Palin reality shows. lol Im done now.

    ALL IMO
     
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  7. KoalaRainbowPoop

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    ^you sir deserve 10 american flag wavers. spoken like a true patriot.
     
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  8. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    Perhaps a minor quibble, but I see this point raised a lot and I'm always confused as to why the two are mistaken.

    Eyebrows first stated NOT having health insurance is (or should) also be a right.

    To which Rakon responded, Yea, who needs health care.

    Health insurance isn't health care. And just because you have insurance doesn't mean you'll get good care. It makes it more likely, sure, but there will still be "lazy slob" cases, in America and in other nations that have "free" "universal" care. (Let's not act as if everyone's health in the "progressive" nations is hunky-dory.)

    And heck, why shouldn't I be free to NOT have health insurance? I have it right now, but I sometimes contemplate dropping it because I've had zero health problems outside of the occasional exceptional case (e.g., appendicitis, allergy outbreak), which were years ago, and nothing for a while. I think, how nice would it be to have some extra money each paycheck to save for something, such as a savings account, car, or wedding?

    But I retain it because I know there's always a chance, and I'd rather be safe than sorry. Still, not everyone thinks like that. Shouldn't they be free to? Apparently not, because a couple hundred old people think those people should not only have to buy insurance, but also pay for the few (relatively speaking) who somehow couldn't get insurance before.
     
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  9. King_Arthur

    King_Arthur Rookie

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    My grandfather wanted to drop his HC, sadly he died from cancer. He too thought of dropping his coverage, he did not and he was covered and he stayed alive thanks to surgery and treatment for another year before his artificial stomach killed him. But I see where both sides are coming from, but when 1 side starts to get angry enough to call names and shout out rude remarks, things start to get messy.

    PS: 34 million Americans is a big number and I understand people don't wan to pay more taxes, but people give to charity, but won't help the little guy personally? Makes me wonder.... It's alot of money to fix alot of things which will bring back in money, there should really be no argument about this. But there is.
     
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  10. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    It's fine by me if you don't want health insurance. And I agree Ted, I should have separated health care and health insurance a little bit more.

    I just can't relate all that well to not having free health care, because I do. I have health insurance through my university, but they ended up terminating my coverage (for a reason I still have yet to discover) when I got my dentist bill (dentistry is not covered under our free health care). And it's very frustrating knowing that I have insurance and I'm not getting any help.

    I can see where you are coming from Eyebrows, in the sense that it makes sense for you to not have medical insurance. I get that. Personally, I like not having to pay for any visit to the doctor, or when my lung collapsed (had we not had free health care in this country I probably would only have one lung, because I didn't have insurance and there's no way my family could have afforded all of the treatment).

    Health was a serious issue in the States, and the way you have it does not work (it works to a small extent, but not even close to what it should be). I don't think this bill is the final answer, but it's great progress.
     
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  11. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    ^ I'm having a hard time seeing it as great progress. Sorry to hear about your medical problems, but the craziness of this whole affair is were the money is going. I see this bill not a something to help the people, but a new way to funnel money to special interest groups, specifically SEIU, who has been in the red these past few years. They need new members to pay dues and thus support the growing number of retiring union members with lavish pensions, see what is happening to California with their over abundance of unions. They're so deep in the red as a state being the 8th largest economy in the world really isn't helping them much.


    I think my biggest issue with the bill and Obama in general (see "Employee free choice act" better known as "No more secret voting") is unions; having formally worked for a big local union who managed to still dole out 25million to the DNC despite the fact that their workers are scraping by with 8 to 14 hours a week with 2 days of vacation a year on 7 and a quarter an hour is pathetic. Their workforce is split 85/15 part time full time, whilst my employer is the opposite, despite being a grocer(we have no union, thank god).
     
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  12. KoalaRainbowPoop

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    eyebrows, i have just one question, and just before ya yell at me, i really have no stance on the health care bill, i'm not really sold on it yet, but, i digress. here is my question. is there anything about this bill you like?
     
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  13. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXsRH73Cnw8

    sick Americans be damned? there's a dollar to be made. health care = welfare... What the fuck exactly is going on with the Republican party these days?
    their man on the street has all at once become the DC bizarro Superman of the party's worst merits. Everything they touch turns to shit. Seriously, this can't be good for PR.
    There's future popularity contests at stake. um.. wake up?

    actually, this is bullshit. if a republican administration moved health care reform along.......i just hate sheep. We spend tons on military defense and no one bats an eye. But when our country stands up to take care of us, we defecate on them.
    The entire republican party is sandbagging, the smell of desperation is already thick in the air, and still nothings getting done.

    well, up until now. and I've been disappointed in the democratic party - up until now.
    Glad they've found their balls.
     
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  14. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    Yes, it covers folks with pre-existing conditions. My mother has had lupus, a type of skin cancer, all her life, and now she can get health insurance(in a few years).


    But this one sliver of ham in the turd sandwich doesn't change what it is. I work with a lot of europeans; Bosnians mostly, Russians, and a few Germans, and this bill horrifies them. What we have just done is sacrifice the best care in the world(Canadian leaders visit quite often) for something that still won't cover everybody in the nation. If the dems and repubs pulled there big stupid heads out of the sand and actually made a good bill involving both parties ideas (and folks can fuck right off with the "Repubs ideas are all bad" mentality) we might have had something decent.

    CC, not quite sure what to make of your post. I guess it's about as bad as that SEIU member beating up that tea partier here in saint louis. Pesky union thugs. Going to find assholes in all groups.
     
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  15. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    So I hear part of this health care reform includes a golden and glistening new tax (btw, what happened to “no new taxesâ€
     
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  16. blobbohen

    blobbohen Rookie

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    I'm very glad to see this conversation happening on the GR forums. The more people talk about the pros and cons of this bill the more they are going to realize how huge an accomplishment it is. And I'd definitely say the poor won with this passage of this bill. It was absolutely created with them in mind.

    For the past 8 months I've worked on the healthcare reform campaign primarily with the groups HCAN and Organizing for America, so you can imagine I'm pretty thrilled that this first step is almost wrapped up. I know the bill freaks alot of people out because of the individual mandate for insurance and the sheer size of the legislation so often shrieked about by the GOP. But, as goes with science, when you analyze something you need to do it without emotionally reasoning. The individual mandate for insurance does indeed have exemptions, specifically if you are a dependent or too poverty-stricken, among other stipulations. As for the size of the bill, it's legislation that affects millions of people regarding a corporate system that has had its own special anti-trust exemption since 1945. Why the surprise if it's the size of a couple Tolstoy novels? There's alot to manage and fix here.

    And to the users "tedwolff" and "eyebrowsbv31" I say this: try your best to calm down. I'm with you guys in one sense: I think this legislation could have been alot better. However, that's because I don't think it goes far enough. A public option or a single-payer system would have been spectacular, and may every well be crafted in later, (http://huff.to/cTOrtG) but for now I'm pretty happy with the highly generous subsidies that will be offered to make insurance more affordable to people that couldn't buy it before this was enacted. Again, this was a bill for the poor. It just got diluted on the way there.

    The other thing I'll say is that you're getting something in the way of a bonus if you're a college student when this bill's reconciliation measure passes. http://nyti.ms/cvgtjU I like the strategy with how this broadens the measure's appeal, and especially since it helps to balance out the usual inattention to help out college students that are so badly abused by the loan system we have now. This is probably one of the best ideas since FAFSA, in my opinion. So put down the Natty LIght, and start paying more attention to this bill's effects. You won't regret it. Or, you know what, read it while you're drunk, since that's what most of the Republicans must have done. I know, I know, below the belt. But true?

    If you're furious and fuming about the bill then my post just now will probably do little for you beyond give you an aneurysm. However, the cost of doing nothing would have been disastrous, and that's what reps like John Boehner in my state would have had us do. Make no mistake, there's a ton of work to yet be done regarding the updating of our coverage system. But we're off to a hell of start.

    Thanks for making this conversation happen, Stalfros. This is good times.
     
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  17. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Biden just skipped up the stairs. Dude is just happy to be on TV.
     
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  18. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    Are eyebrows and I not calm because we're presenting opposing views, or what?

    But ah yes, the poor. It's a wonder things are supposedly still so bad today when so much has been done in the name of the poor.

    Then again, some of the "poor" don't want anything to do with this bill. An old article, but still relevant.

    A bill so convoluted as to be more than a thousand pages, despite what you say, just begs for people to game it and corrupt it. And it asks for so, so many unintended consequences (similar to when Wal-Mart cheered the minimum wage because it could better absorb the hit than its smaller competitors could).

    But, no matter. Like Stal said earlier, the Republicans are just upset they're not the ones in power passing this bill (after all, they passed the Medicare debacle 8 years ago, responsible for those high drug prices we still have (that Obama reinforced last year)). Whenever they return to power we'll forget this squabbling, and they'll probably vote to strengthen and extend the bill, much like the Dems did recently with the Patriot Act (remember that one?)
     
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  19. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    it's an everyday occurrence when things are done in the name of the rich, so it doesn't make the headlines.
    You can literally take a drive across town and see where the money begins and ends. What better way to enjoy all the normalities of life.
     
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  20. King_Arthur

    King_Arthur Rookie

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    ^^^^ exactly. lol People any bill that is passed has it's pros and cons, any bill ! Lets not act like this bill is the only bill ever to be debated. lol seriously.

    And Chris, you're right, mainly because I just drove from the northside to downtown and saw your point.

    Scare tactics is getting old, does anybody even watch the show ?
     
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