So this whole Health Care Reform thing...

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by MikeyVassallo, Mar 22, 2010.

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HCR Bill, How do you feel?

  1. This is a good thing and here is why...

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  2. This is a bad thing and I plan on explaining why...

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  3. I feel this is both good and bad and this is why...

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  4. I don't know or care enough to comment and I'm probably a drain on society.

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  1. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    How do you feel about it? I want to mostly hear from Americans, however anybody is free to offer up an opinion. I do not really care to hear how better X country is than Y country.

    The vote in the house last night was pretty momentous. There hasn't been a change to healthcare policy this large since President Johnson enacted Medicare. I know if you listen to the media and the talking points it sounds pretty gross with one side hurling insults and the other side acting as if they cured cancer, however the bottom line is this:
    Nearly 94% of Americans will have access to Health Insurance coverage due to changes in policy in the bill.

    So I guess it depends on how you fell about that. It still has to make it through the Senate and the process is far from over, but this was a giant first step. If you vote in the poll please tell us how you voted and why.
     
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  2. GRColin

    GRColin Rookie

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    I see one vote for why it is but no explanation...Hmmm.
     
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  3. malakian

    malakian Rookie

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    I feel this is a fantastic, progressive move for your country that is long overdue. The reason I think that is because I live in a country with socialised health, and cannot imagine how awful the alternative to free at the point of use healthcare would be. It has saved my life a few times and I see it as an absolutely core function of government. Policy on the NHS directly influences my vote. I have looked at financial charts on the BBC website about the astronomically increased cost of healthcare in the US in recent years and it seems that youre all very much victims to a massive profiteering racket. Obviously if youre big money youre going to lose out, but I cant see how this is anything but good for the little person.
     
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  4. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    What I want to know is why this vote occurred as late as it did. Shouldn't these old people have been doing the healthy thing and getting a good night's rest to get up for the senior discount at Village Inn the next morning?
     
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  5. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Sadly, Alex, this isn't providing free healthcare to anybody. The so called "Public option" was decried as "Socialism" which is a political kill word here in the states.

    What it does provide is expanded availability of a Government program called Medicade which is a version of affordable health insurance for low income families making around $29k or less and the abolition of the "Pre-existing condition" clause many private insurance companies use to keep higher-risk customers out of their plans.

    So in essence what it does is helps Americans pay for the health insurance they need to gain access to care which they weren't exactly being denied at point of service, but the taxpayer was paying for out of pocket directly.

    Honestly, if it was the GOP's idea first they would probably be behind it. It uses free market competition to insure around 34 million of the still uninsured people living in this country.
     
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  6. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Good question.
     
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  7. Bretimus_v2

    Bretimus_v2 Hey kiddo!

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    I thought it quite strange that it was so late...makes it seem more clandestine, if you ask me.

    After being on the fence on this one for a long time, I'm very much on board. The fact that this helps people get health insurance and more importantly health care, and will make it more affordable is great. But as Stal already stated, getting rid of the "pre-existing condition" clause is huge.
     
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  8. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Stall tactics caused it to be so late. I'm pretty sure every member of the house was present. The GOP did their part to try to delay it frequently.
     
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  9. malakian

    malakian Rookie

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    Well I didnt say it was going to, but surely the extension of medicare to the poor and those with pre-existing conditions is nowt but a benevolent advance.
     
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  10. Trippysmurf

    Trippysmurf Rookie

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    The adrenaline rush caused by the thoughts of American tax payer money funding abortions and the subsequent fury from all those unborn future government-funded stem cell research lives kept them up. DUH!

    Anyways, here is why it is a good thing:

    1) 32 million Americans will get health care out of this. This is a good thing.
    2) Young Americans can still be on their parents' health care plans after college up to the age of 26. This doesn't help me, but this is a great thing for those youths coming out of college without a job.
    3) If you want to be stubborn jerk, you still don't have to get health insurance. But you will get fined. This is a good thing because you can still be a stubborn jerk and give back to the country.
    4) Illegal immigrants are not covered in this. This is a GREAT thing. And before you ask, under the current system, an illegal who cut his arm off trimming your yard and was rushed to the ER would still be treated on your tax paid dollars.
    5) Doctors get sno-cones every other Friday. You'd be surprised how powerful the sno-cone lobby really is.
    6) If you have insurance, you can keep it, or you can move to the government plan.
    7) Conservatives are majorly butthurt, and some have even suggested leaving the country (until they realize the country they'd flee to already has universal health care) or talk about secession, which is treason and just makes them look even more butthurt and stupid.
    8 ) This is not a perfect plan for the general public. But it is a tremendous step towards something. Something like catching up with Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Cuba, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Uruguay, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, most of Europe, most of Asia, Australia and New Zealand.
    9) And Hawaii.
     
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  11. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Ah, I see. It sounded like you thought it might. It is a common misconception that is usually used as a "Why this is bad" argument among the GOP and their constituents here in the states. In other words, "Why should I pay so poor and lazy people can get healthcare."
     
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  12. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    Wait, so everyone has to buy insurance or be fined? Gosh, I bet the insurance companies love that clause; poor people, too. That must be the free market competition Stal mentioned.
     
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  13. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Eh, its more of a tax credit if you spend a percentage of your income on insurance, which is now being made available to you if it wasn't before.

    Try to drive without a license or auto insurance.

    See what kind of fees you incur.
     
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  14. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    So explain to me how forcing someone to buy something is free market competition. Sounds to me like making an audience more captive to those "unruly" insurance companies.

    Also, I don't get your auto insurance analogy. I mean, I could say, "try to own a house without flood insurance and see what fees you won't incur."

    Oh, and I'm an Iowa boy, and, if you're unfamiliar with recent goings-on in Corn Country, the tax credit thing ain't too pretty here. See, some Iowa legislators thought a tax credit would help lure Hollywood filmmakers to Iowa ... until the whole thing became embroiled in scandal. Now, I know one egg doesn't ruin the entire eggcart, but how's this tax credit gonna be better and less corrupt? I mean, come on, we know all the behind-the-curtain backpatting these Warshingtonians do.
     
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  15. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

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    Flood insurance isn't mandatory to operate a moving vehicle like liability insurance is. Sure, it is a state mandate, not a federal one.

    Also, just because you have to have coverage doesn't mean they dictate who you get the coverage with. That still sounds like free market to me.
     
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  16. KoalaRainbowPoop

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    i don't know what to make of this. it's a great step forward, indeed, but not close enough to free universal healthcare. the getting fined thing, i don't much care for. thats just silly. honestly though, i don't see why the insurance companies are so butt hurt. they bought it upon themselves. i like how no one can be denied coverage becuase of a pre existing condition, thats a great thing. and anyone who thinks this a form of socialism is just a idiot.
     
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  17. Trippysmurf

    Trippysmurf Rookie

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    Except that would be a stupid analogy as some Americans live in areas where there is 0% of flood risk. If there is a place that has 0% health risk, then damn, I'll move there. But unfortunately we live in a world where two days ago some uninsured poor, lazy slob could slice his leg off trying to trim a bush with a chainsaw, be rushed to the emergency room where he would receive medical care first, and then it would be discovered he had no insurance and would owe the hospital thousands of dollars. Thousands of dollars he doesn't have. So instantly in America, tax payers have paid thousands to save this man's life and the hospital may never get that money back, which causes them to cut back on hours and causes you to sit in the waiting room 4 hours to see your twisted ankle.

    With this bill, the poor slob can either afford to buy the cheap insurance through Medicaid, pay $95 or 1% of income, whichever is higher, (which is still cheaper than what I pay) and you are exempt from buying insurance if it costs more than 8% of your income for the cheapest plan.

    And you do have a choice. There is a wide variety of greedy insurance companies that you can purchase plans for, just as with homeowners and car insurance. Also, you don't have to get medical coverage. If you are so opposed to buying insurance and you cut off your foot, it is entirely your right to lay there and bleed to death.
     
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  18. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    I feel that this is a great thing. I feel that there's a horrible ideology in the States that everybody thinks solely about themselves. While this cannot be said for the entire nation, what can be said is that there is a general and popular belief that only the self matters, and that it doesn't matter what others need, it's what I need. This was certainly helped by Republican politicians claiming America is about Freedom and Liberty. True, but they have somehow made Freedom and the Self synonymous.

    I feel that this bill will help correct this ideology, and make people realize that it is important that other people in society are being taken care of. This bill represents more than just health care. It can help correct the sour view that many Americans have which is that only they matter. And as we all know, the only person who is allowed to think that they are the only one who matters is nobody.
     
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  19. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    I voted for the third one down.Bet you'd expect I'd go for the second one.

    Arguing the benefits/problems with the bill is pointless, especially on this groupthink forum, but the fact it was a single party vote that wasn't bipartisan at all will be a major boot in the ass later on. You all have in your heads that the only reason the republicans opposed this is for the benefit of the insurance companies and the rich, a half true and silly notion. Centrist solutions would have been a much better option, but political bickering and childish "if it's not my way to hell with you" mentality has given us one bloated bill(that I can't really explain because not many know what's in the damn thing). If Obama was actually a man of integrity, he wouldn't sign this bill. I hope you all realize that.

    This won't benefit you, the poor, middle class, any normal person in anyway. It will benefit the special interest groups, drug companies, insurance companies and unions. When California collapses later this year, it will be a prime example of what will happen to this country.

    Also like to point out, as I have many times before, the 30 million that this bill will insure will primarily be forcing unwilling people onto it. Not having health insurance is a right just as much as having it is.


    Bring on the leftist hate!

    And, on another note, this bill will have some serious issues, expect it to go to the supreme court.


    It's not really about people thinking solely about themselves, it's about people thinking for themselves, gov't steps in to hinder the latter, not the former.

    Edit: I like this one: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... re-reform/
     
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  20. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

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    So forcing someone to pay for something is part of a free market. Gotcha.

    Also, you can choose whether to own a vehicle and drive. That's a bit different than living and having no choice but to buy health insurance.
     
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