So this whole Health Care Reform thing...

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by MikeyVassallo, Mar 22, 2010.

?

HCR Bill, How do you feel?

  1. This is a good thing and here is why...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. This is a bad thing and I plan on explaining why...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I feel this is both good and bad and this is why...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I don't know or care enough to comment and I'm probably a drain on society.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Blobb, as kindly and calmly as possible, I must say this:

    You're a tool.


    And the NYT is not a credible source. Neither is this, but this article is much better about student loans. As a college student(who is filling out the FAFSA tomorrow), I'm not happy about it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02972.html
     
    #41
  2. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bottom line:
    Are you uninsured due to a preexisting condition? For now, insurers can continue to discriminate against people with preexisting conditions, but within 90 days the administration must create an "interim high-risk pool" for the uninsurable. The Department of Health and Human Services can run the $5 billion program itself or farm it out to states or nonprofits. To be eligible for the program, you have to be a U.S. citizen and uninsured for six months due to a preexisting condition.

    Are your kids uninsured due to a preexisting condition? Within six months the law will prohibit insurance companies from discriminating against children with preexisting conditions.

    Do you have older kids who will soon "age-out" of your family plan? Young adults will be allowed to stay on their parents' plans until they turn 26, instead of being dropped at 19 or after college.

    Are you a small-business owner? The bill offers tax credits -- up to 35 percent the cost of premiums -- to small businesses to make it easier to cover employees this year.

    Are you paying for drugs in the "doughnut hole"? The law should begin to close the hole, which refers to a costly gap in Medicare Part D prescription drug coverage, this year by offering a $250 rebate.
    Story continues below

    Have you been dropped by your insurer because you got sick? Six months from now, insurers will no longer be allowed to drop policyholders when they get sick.

    There is no "mandate". There is a tax credit for spending a certain percentage of your income on health insurance for your family... and tax credits sure as shit aren't unconstitutional.

    Eyebrows, fuck you about the NYT not being a credible source and then posting a Washington Post link.

    News papers articles are a creditable source because they are fact checked. Editorial articles aren't. You learn that in day two of Comm Law. Try taking a class sometime.
     
    #42
  3. UrbanMasque

    UrbanMasque Everyone Wears a Mask

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,150
    Likes Received:
    5
    I wanted to stay out of this topic but this comment brought me in, and all i have to say to it is...
    You're retarded!!!

    and not in the funny sense of the word - i mean more like the Tripp Palin sense.

    NYTimes is still the end all be all for newspapers (or whats left of newspapers).
     
    #43
  4. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well aware of that, maybe you should take a class on what words mean. and urb, don't be a moron, please. I sent you that article, the new york times is awful. Their news section is biased and partisan, it's the Fox News of Newspapers.

    Anyhow, stal those are excellent points, and one of the few bits of tinsel in the turd, I just wish they could have done that without all the horrific fluff we'll be paying for (in more than one way) down the road.
     
    #44
  5. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, I let my spell check change credible to creditable... I must be an idiot. I'm also sorry that the truth has a liberal bias and you can't handle that.

    Also, let's see a list of that fluff.
     
    #45
  6. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Both are words, I hope you realize, or is it realise, that. Truth doesn't have bias, lest you want false information to be true. But that's another argument.

    And I guess you haven't been reading the posts ted makes, or the ones I make. I expect you not to read mine, but least give ted a read, you prefer him. You'll get your "list" out of it. And I don't really need to make a list; anything passed on a single party majority, or by people in power with no term limits is going to be roughly 25% substance and 75% crap.
     
    #46
  7. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. Bretimus_v2

    Bretimus_v2 Hey kiddo!

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,979
    Likes Received:
    14
    Right, because they haven't had to fight (and strong-arm) for this at all. :roll:
     
    #48
  9. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, you know, majority rule isn't something that should happen in this country anymore.
     
    #49
  10. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Only within their own party. It's such a mess.


    Anyone here disagree with the notion that senators should be limited to 2-3 term limits and house members to 4?
     
    #50
  11. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not. We agree there. I think they should honestly get 2 terms of 4 years just like the President, and if they don't or can't get it done in 2 terms, fuck em.
     
    #51
  12. Trippysmurf

    Trippysmurf Rookie

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hate the concept of career politicians. They epitomize stagnation and continue to view things with dated mindsets. Term limits would be great, as it would help keep new blood flowing through Congress, allowing Generation X and soon Generation Y/MTV Generation/Millenials more of a presence in politics.
     
    #52
  13. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Being a politician should be a public service, not a high dollar cushy job.
     
    #53
  14. blobbohen

    blobbohen Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're a tool.

    Okay! Just got back from work so it was fun to see what got posted while I was away. Do I, per chance, sense some resentment from a couple posters here? Good! I need a decent work-out and typing seems like the best prescription. With some cowbell.

    It's a very unpopular law, no doubt and for different reasons (some, like me, think it doesn't do enough). But, sadly, many people have taken no effort to learn anything about what made up the meat of this legislation. That's what I've learned from talking to the teabaggers, anyway. By the way here's perfect refutation of that article you posted, good sir: http://bit.ly/821o1W. Crafty Amish! My far more recent article is so great it's even from this past January and not from the wicked New York Times! There are, as I said earlier, exemptions.

    This kind of reminds me of the GR mailbag gems that the Grandmasters used to be assailed with. You're partially right, though. I am a fan of Tool. You just got the wording and syntax wrong. And again I'd counsel you both, eyebrows and tedwolff, to relax before making too strong a judgment on this newly-signed law. It's huge, and while it must be very emotionally gratifying to get ticked it's not going to help you with the reality that you are subject to what it says. Unless you want to go and become Amish, of course. Sex Drive made it look fun, at least.

    I've gotta head out again soon but at the very least I would counsel anyone that has a problem with the law to read it through or seek clarity on it somewhere other than pundits. In the words of Sen. Franken you "can't let the perfect be the enemy of the very, very good." And that's what this new law is: very, very good. Or better yet, a great start.
     
    #54
  15. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    That may be a contributing factor though. Politicians aren't well paid; mayors at the lowest level only get around 2.5k a year depending on location, and all of them make less then the president (which is what, 450k a year?) Slightly higher wages for senators and house members at all levels along with term limits and a restriction on donations from outside parties (Like Blobb's) would be grand.
     
    #55
  16. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    250k a year is cushy. Median is 50k. And that is for two working adults.
     
    #56
  17. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cushy to us, but to those with a lot of power at their fingertips, it's chicken scraps.
     
    #57
  18. MikeyVassallo

    MikeyVassallo Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    14,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is what I'm saying, it shouldn't have to come to that. 250k is a lot to build a household on. The people elected should be public servants and not doing it for money.
     
    #58
  19. Ted_Wolff

    Ted_Wolff Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Resentment? Need to relax? Nah, we're just offering opposing viewpoints. I mean, that is still possible, right? This isn't a competition, man. It's a discussion.

    But whatevs. Your article doesn't really answer the problem of Amish businesses being required to provide health insurance. And if the Amish can claim exemption, why not someone who simply disagrees with the bill? Stuff like that always seems wishy-washy.

    And nah, I'm not interested in reading a huge bill. I'd rather read Tolstoy if I'm going to read something so huge. I just want to be able to visit my doctor or dentist, discuss procedures and monetary compensation, and be in and out. I shouldn't need to read 1,000 pages to do that, or even be forced to buy insurance, or forced to buy higher-priced drugs because of backroom deals.
     
    #59
  20. blobbohen

    blobbohen Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^^^^^ Understood, if you're not upset and charged I'll believe you. You sound a bit embittered to me though..... http://bit.ly/ctZTE7 One of my favorite characters. And dissent is a major component of science, my friend, so by all means let's continue the conversation.

    86% of U.S. small businesses will be exempt from having to provide coverage for their employees, because they are exactly that- small with few employees. People opposed to this law never wanted to acknowledge that. Additionally, in my part of Northeastern Ohio, where there are a ton of Amish families (http://bit.ly/aVKTxJ), and they tend to be family-staffed businesses with less than the statute of 50 workers employed within them, they are EXEMPT from having to provide insurance. This would all be clear to anyone that has actually read the law or contacted their representative (or staff) regarding the law's content. What's wishy-washy is being opposed to something you know very little about- beyond the thorny statement of "I don't like it." Dissent is welcome, but make it informed dissent. Even though I'm sure you speak Homer more beautifully than anyone. :wink:

    You should be familiar with the text and principles of legislation that you take issue with. Otherwise, it becomes obvious that your argument isn't grounded in much more than your own conviction. There's alot of philosophical flourishing you can do with that alone but in the context of this debate for you it goes as follows: "I am not familiar with the law therefore I am not fit to criticize the law and be taken seriously." Back up that opinion of yours with some data, noble sir.

    As for the length of the bill and your unwillingness to read it, KISS, the band or the saying about keeping it simple, doesn't apply. Legislation that affects millions of people in a comprehensive way is going to have alot of words, and all the cynicism in the world isn't going to change that. And nothing's going to get in the way of you hashing it out with your doc, so no worries there since if anything there will be less complications.

    As the mandate for insurance goes it doesn't go until effect until 2014, has exemptions (especially if you're already so far down on the poverty level), and in all honesty will not be enforced with all that much rigidity. That last part is pure conjecture on my part (just that part not my whole response!) but I think that will most likely happen. Sometimes that reaching broom to get people to pay up just ain't there.

    This is enjoyable discussion. Let me say that much, indeed. And I know people like to use the whole "government takeover" knee-jerk response. Eric Cantor used the tactic when he told Obama at the bi-partisan summit that if we just took all the government out of the insurance industries things could be allowed to operate properly. And to that President Obama responded as follows (not verbatim): "If we took all the meat inspectors out of the meat-packing plants we would probably have alot more inexpensive beef in the grocery stores and markets. That doesn't mean that it would be beef worth buying- or eating." Understand what he 's saying here.

    The insurance industries have been allowed to run wild for too long. We're beginning to collar them now, and while there's a ton as yet to be accomplished we've at least admitted that there is a problem that needed to be addressed. We certainly have not made it worse.

    Now I'm really starting to have fun. Let's keep it going!

    And read Don DeLillo, not Tolstoy. Had to throw that out there.
     
    #60

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice