transgender sensitivity vs beating women

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by Icepick, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Icepick

    Icepick Rookie

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    I know not many of you are MMA fans, but there is a interesting situation going on with one of the lower end organizations

    a fighter by the name of Fallon Fox (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Fallon-Fox-100599), currently fighting in the womens division, and has a 3-0 record. Nothing major there, except she used to be he, and had 2 professional fights before disclosing the fact she used to have penis.

    She's had gender reassignment surgery, and has been on hormones for 2 years, which is the minimal requirement to compete in the olympics as female, however I would argue that fighting is a bit different. The two fights she had prior to disclosing the situation she won by brutality, and the jury is out on this one. On the one hand she does meet the standards the olympic commission requires, and a few doctors feel there is no competitive advantage, however her training partners state there is a noticeable difference, a number of doctors site the bone density difference between male and female as being unchanged by the gender switch, and the fact it wasn't disclosed until she brutalized 2 other women

    the major issue however are bleeding hearts, any attempt to argue against her being allowed to compete against women, no matter how professionally made, created a backlash of activists who essentially flag anyone who disagrees as insensitive towards transgenders, citing that by law they do not have to disclose their former identity

    I'm against it, I support her right to be viewed as a woman, both by law and by the public, but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere and in combat sports I would say that's going to far

    Am I right for not wanting women to be beat by a (former) man, am I an insensitive bastard? where does GR stand?
     
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  2. Optimus-Crime

    Optimus-Crime Rookie

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    dude looks like a lady
     
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  3. Affen

    Affen Rookie

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    If she gets no clear physical advance over others from her past gender, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't let her compete. But if her muscles stay in male power leagues I see the problem.

    On the other hand I'd like to see buff women beat out scrawny men in the ring, but that's a whole different fantasy league waiting to happen.
     
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  4. intoTheRain

    intoTheRain Regular

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    I feel its not fair at all for her to compete.
     
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  5. Mod-Chip

    Mod-Chip Rookie

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    I agree that on a societal level it is important to recognize her as a transgender female, and by all means grant her a civilian status of a female, upheld by appropriate legal definitions. And this is fine when talking about gender, which is for all intents and purposes, a social construct.

    But when it comes to a sport where the division between sexes is determined by a fundamental biological difference in DNA (XX, XY), it is hard to make the case that a transgendered person can transfer to the other sex category by changing their gender identity. As far as I know, no amount of hormones or cosmetic surgery will change your sex-determining chromosomes.

    That being said, what this really boils down to is how the MMA organization wants to be perceived by the public, and it seems that in this case they're favoring public opinion over fundamental differences in intrinsic physical characteristics.
     
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  6. Sourdeez

    Sourdeez Rookie

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    They don't have weight brackets?

    I've seen women with bigger muscles than men. As much as it would offend the the stupid societal norm, I think men, women, and transgender in the same weight class should be able to fight each other.

    From what I have seen women can be just as violent and muscular as men. We live in a society in which we are expected to treat everyone equally. Its about time we did.
     
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  7. intoTheRain

    intoTheRain Regular

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    Doesn't matter, thats now how men and women work. It's a totally different ball game when it comes to men and womens bodies.

    Coming from someone who has spent a lot of time in the gym, I've seen many juice head females that are quite jacked. A guy who works out and is a similar size/build to said female, could EASILY double her lifts, in pretty much every category. (In every situation I've come across anyway)

    Men have something like 10-20% faster reaction times as well. They're just build for hunting/fighting, period. Women are not.

    I'm sure there are a ton of huge differences.

    Under no circumstances is it fair for this person to fight other females.

    http://88.198.144.37/~martin/WUAP/wpf/e ... -fm-er.pdf

    Look at that link.

    For bench press, the world record for 56kg women is 75 KG, 56kg males is 112 KG

    for 90KG+ women its 85KG, for 90KG men its 217KG

    in the junior classes. which is pretty much prime.


    in the 90kg weight class the women are tripled almost
     
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  8. De-Ting

    De-Ting Rookie

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    Remember the episode of Futurama where Bender changes his gender to compete in the Female Robot Olympics? Yeah...
     
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  9. UrbanMasque

    UrbanMasque Everyone Wears a Mask

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    Nope sorry.

    You were born a man, you have to fight other men. If you need to fight, form a transgender league otherwise it is unfair. period.
     
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  10. LinksOcarina

    LinksOcarina Rookie

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    If the she meets the Olympic standards (which I believe are fairly strict) I see no problem with it. Let her keep fighting.
     
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  11. Bretimus_v2

    Bretimus_v2 So tired.

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    It's not like there are dong-centric moves that separate the leagues. So no advantage gained. I had to wrestle a girl in high school. If we're all for equal rights why can't someone Danica Kirkpatrick their way in the other way?

    So here's the next card: Rousey vs Cruz.
     
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  12. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    Very interesting issue, but I'd say that as long as she still has the muscle definition of a man, she should compete against men. Not being sexist, but intotherain is right; men are simply built stronger than women (women's bodies are designed for endurance. For example, there's no way a male could handle childbirth).

    Lose the male muscle definition, then you can compete with women.
     
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  13. UrbanMasque

    UrbanMasque Everyone Wears a Mask

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    Just in case anyone was curious:

    Fallon Fox
    guy - would bang
    [​IMG]

    The Cyborg
    girl - wouldn't bang
    [​IMG]

    Cyborg would also demolish Fox - it still doesnt mean they should compete against each other.
     
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  14. MattAY

    MattAY Forum Moderator
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    Why not let her compete, all the women in there are practically blokes anyway.
    Like Linkozade says, the Olpmyic ruling is the highest form of ruling available. Just do as they say and the league cant go wrong in my opnion. As soon as she loses one match, all this talk will be over anyway!
     
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  15. Icepick

    Icepick Rookie

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    cam whore angles make anyone look good, here's a better pic to judge

    [​IMG]

    0/10 would not bang

    and cyborg is pumped full of synthetic testosterone, essentially a transgender

    as for the comment all the female fighters are blokes, I disagree, I would violate Meisha Tate's ass in a heartbeat

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. intoTheRain

    intoTheRain Regular

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    ^^ oh lawd have mercy
     
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  17. GRColin

    GRColin Rookie

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    Don't find Meisha Tate attractive and she needs to stop talking. Her and Rhonda Rousey. Something about Bec Hayatt though..

    Anyways, the majority of people I've heard opinions from regarding Fallon Fox agree she should be fighting me or not fighting at all. Fox tried saying in an interview that she's taken so many hormone supplements and done so much hormone replacement therapy that there are no traces of manly manness there anymore. I call B.S.

    Good news? Have you seen her fight? She's horrible and will not be relevant much longer.
     
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  18. madster111

    madster111 Rookie

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    Do you actually have a working penis?
     
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  19. used44

    used44 Forum Moderator
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    The left picture if Meisha is a 2 but the right pic is a 9, so I don't know what side I'm on.
     
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  20. GRColin

    GRColin Rookie

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    Seeing as how I have a kid and a hot wife and as far as we know you're single or fucking bar slags, I don't know if you're in any position to ask that.

    [​IMG]

    Miesha without makeup and photoshop. It's that damn nose.
    http://www.mmajunkie.com/files/thumb/60535/0

    Seriously...I guess I just don't jump at any girl with a nice body and an ugly face.
     
    #20

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