UghRochester
https://www.twitch.tv/ughrochester
This confirms I wasn't going crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHfLx5sqpCU
FORCE AWAKENS movie club (unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter used44
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LinksOcarina
Rookie
UghRochester said:
I thought that was well known. They snuck in Alec Guinness as well.
UghRochester
https://www.twitch.tv/ughrochester
It's the voice in the mist after Rey's visions when she first touched Anakin/Luke's lightsaber. Don't think many people heard him or Alec Guinness.
COMaestro
Veteran
UghRochester said:
I believe the line is "These are the first steps," which was a repurposed line by Sir Guinness from A New Hope, "You have taken your first step into a larger world."
I really enjoyed the movie, though I saw how they just retreaded the first movie almost beat for beat. I'm going to cover points I've seen in the thread, so this is going to be a long one...
I loved how they did Kylo Ren, as it's wonderful to see someone trying SO HARD to be evil but being "called by the Light" or whatever the line was. Even his outbursts are overdone, as if this is how he thinks a Dark Jedi should act and trying to live up to that rather than it being his natural instinct. Revealing his face early was important, I feel, as it does this interesting parallel with Anakin/Vader. At first, they revealed Ren similarly to the way Vader first shows up in A New Hope, all badass looking and demonstrating great power. In the originals, we never see the man under the mask until the very end of ROTJ where we see this old scarred man. In the prequels, of course, we see Anakin right away and because of the OT, we know how he's going to end up. With Ren, they're pushing both sides of this, but with the knowledge that the audience DOESN'T know how he's going to end up. Will he finally be redeemed at the end or will he be struck down? I can't wait to find out. I also love how his lightsaber reflects the character, lacking the elegance of a true lightsaber and instead looking crude, unsteady and uncontrolled. A great detail in the movie.
I felt Rey adapted to her Force sensitivity a little too quickly to be believed, as far as demonstrating telekinesis and the mind trick (Daniel Craig was that stormtrooper!
), and I know there's been a lot of outcry over her beating Ren when he had her on the ropes (disregarding the fact he had been shot by a bowcaster that was remarked upon for its amazing power three times through the film). However, looking at her Force vision upon touching the lightsaber, we see a lot of things. Notably, we see her standing in a field of dead bodies with Kylo and the Knights of Ren. Most believe the dead people were Luke's other Jedi trainees, suggesting that Rey may have been one who survived. Since Ren reaches out to her in the vision and then we are shown her younger self being left on Jakku, I'm thinking that she was a trainee herself, thus had some Force training already. She was then brainwashed a bit when left on Jakku so she would not remember this. The question, then, would be who did this? If she truly is Luke's daughter or even just a lone surviving trainee, did Luke leave her there in an effort to protect her? If Ren did it, is it because he had a bond of some sort to her (cousin or even brother)? Was she just the youngest trainee and he couldn't bring himself to murder her? Lots of possibilities and I'm anxious to see what the truth is.As for Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber, my personal belief is that Maz Kanata retrieved it on her own. She seems familiar with the Force and I think she can hear it in her own way and follow its lead. The Force led her to the lightsaber and she has kept it safe knowing it would have a purpose someday. Rey finding it was that purpose and Maz was able to give Rey the next step on the path to the Force. Something along the lines of, "Close your eyes and you will hear it," which is EXACTLY what Rey did during her duel with Ren and is when she started to win. (Funny enough, I was just on Wookieepedia to get Maz's name right, and right in her entry it says she started using her connection to the Force to track down artifacts like Luke's lightsaber after the fall of the Emperor. So I guess that theory of mine pans out.
)I fully anticipated Han's death from the moment I learned Harrison Ford was in the movie. He wanted Han to die at the end of Empire, so I had a feeling the only way they would have been able to get him in this movie (beyond the $16 million and 0.5% of the gross revenue which I believe is what I heard he made on the film) was to kill off Han. It was a good scene though and the cinematography with the lighting change was wonderfully done. The Wookiee rage afterward was great too.
I really enjoyed Finn and he had great chemistry with all the other characters, though I felt he was a little too over the top at times ("Did you see that!?" when blowing up the first TIE fighter, or "I'm in charge now!" to Phasma). It was a bit off putting for me when he got that way. Honestly I would have enjoyed seeing a little more hesitation from him when fighting the stormtroopers, as some of them may very well have been his comrades. He certainly seemed a bit shaken when the one stormtrooper at the beginning died in his arms, but that may only have been because (I believe) it was Finn's first real combat experience and he had never faced death like that before. Still, I think the character as a whole was fantastic and hope he's healed up for the next movie.
Poe was serviceable, but didn't really get a lot of time to shine in this film other than to show he's a badass pilot. I hope he gets a lot more development in the future. I know there's a comic series featuring him coming out in April, but I don't really follow comics.
Apparently the state of the galaxy was described in some promotional materials. So, if I remember correctly, the last great battle between the Empire and the Rebellion took place at Jakku, hence all the wrecked ships and vehicles there. Sometime after this a treaty was signed with the various Imperial remnants and the New Republic was formed. After a bit, it was decided the New Republic, due to having this treaty, no longer needed such a formidable military, and thus decommissioned most of their navy. During this time the First Order was becoming the most powerful of the Imperial Remnants.
Leia disagreed with this position, especially considering the resources that the First Order was accruing, and formed her own Resistance movement along with some others. She was able to secure support from some members of the Republic, which is where the Resistance gets some (maybe most) of its funding and supplies. And sometime after that is pretty much where we enter the film.
TL
R - I liked the movie.
Great analysis, COMaestro. Thanks for bringing up the New Republic/Resistance stuff. In my opinion, that was poorly explained in the film itself. I was very confused as to why there was a "New Republic" and a separate "Resistance", but I appreciate your explanation.
C_nate
Rookie
So this just came out on blu-ray yesterday so I finally got around to watching this. (I have a pretty decent home theater set-up so I don't go out to the movies much anymore.)
Overall, I liked the film, but I did have some issues with it.
Right off the bat, I was impressed with the visuals. The desert littered with the wreckage of the massive ships was very cool. I also liked how they toned down all of the over the top, nearly cartoon aliens and effects of the prequels and tried to capture a more realistic feeling that was a throwback to the originals. Even the saber duel was a throwback and they ditched the highly choreographed and stylized fights for a more raw duel which again helped keep things grounded.
They laid on the nostalgia and easter eggs a little thick at times; Finn leans on table and accidentally activates that strange holographic chess type game thing on the Millennium Falcon = expected reaction "OMG I REMEMBER THAT" but I guess it's to be expected and I give them credit for not beating us over the head with it like they did in the prequels: Obi-Wan: "Oh Anakin, you are going to be the death of me." CUE: HUGE WINK TO THE AUDIENCE
The major problem of course is the plot. As has been said already, It's just the same plot from the originals, rehashed. It was easily the weakest aspect of the film to me. More specifically, how the fuck did no one notice the remnants of the Empire were building yet another deathstar that is only like you know 50 or 100 times larger than the old one until it blows up a bunch of planets? Also, what is up with the Empire and deathstars? After the last two were blown up, don't you think they would have figured out that after they used it, people were going to try and blow it up again?
Also, once the empire figured out that this map they so desperately wanted was on some dinky desert planet being carried by a single one of a kind droid, don't you think they would've went after it with everything they had? No, they send a couple, like couple in the actual literal sense, stormtroopers and a couple of tie fighters. Even though the information being carried by this droid is supposedly crucial, the tie fighters immediately try to BLOW IT UP. MAKES SENSE.
As far as the characters go, I liked Rey even though it got a bit tiresome how she was just good at everything. She hops in the Millennium Falcon and outmaneuvers two (what I am going to assume are) trained fighter pilots. You can explain away most of it by saying she is strong in the force and just didn't know it yet. Fine, ok. But they stretched that to the breaking point when they had her do the jedi mind trick. How would she even know to try that?
Finn was pretty good, a little over the top at times, but he's the only one I felt any range from. Everyone else was pretty much stuck in one dimension. While the acting was not as horribly wooden as it was in the prequels, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
For those saying emo ren was struggling with being bad, I disagree. He didn't hesitate to order the slaughter of dozens of innocent lives. I would say he is pretty evil to me. All his thrashing about and temper tantrums I think are because he's a young guy and can't get laid. With the mask on, I found him to be nearly unintelligible. Bane with marbles in his mouth.
Cliffhanger endings are pretty annoying, but I guess everything is more or less set up for the next films. Luke will train Rey and that other guy will train ren. I assume we will learn more about this guy since I thought after palpatine and vader died there were no more sith.
Anyway, like I said, annoying story aside, I still somehow enjoyed the movie.
Overall, I liked the film, but I did have some issues with it.
Right off the bat, I was impressed with the visuals. The desert littered with the wreckage of the massive ships was very cool. I also liked how they toned down all of the over the top, nearly cartoon aliens and effects of the prequels and tried to capture a more realistic feeling that was a throwback to the originals. Even the saber duel was a throwback and they ditched the highly choreographed and stylized fights for a more raw duel which again helped keep things grounded.
They laid on the nostalgia and easter eggs a little thick at times; Finn leans on table and accidentally activates that strange holographic chess type game thing on the Millennium Falcon = expected reaction "OMG I REMEMBER THAT" but I guess it's to be expected and I give them credit for not beating us over the head with it like they did in the prequels: Obi-Wan: "Oh Anakin, you are going to be the death of me." CUE: HUGE WINK TO THE AUDIENCE
The major problem of course is the plot. As has been said already, It's just the same plot from the originals, rehashed. It was easily the weakest aspect of the film to me. More specifically, how the fuck did no one notice the remnants of the Empire were building yet another deathstar that is only like you know 50 or 100 times larger than the old one until it blows up a bunch of planets? Also, what is up with the Empire and deathstars? After the last two were blown up, don't you think they would have figured out that after they used it, people were going to try and blow it up again?
Also, once the empire figured out that this map they so desperately wanted was on some dinky desert planet being carried by a single one of a kind droid, don't you think they would've went after it with everything they had? No, they send a couple, like couple in the actual literal sense, stormtroopers and a couple of tie fighters. Even though the information being carried by this droid is supposedly crucial, the tie fighters immediately try to BLOW IT UP. MAKES SENSE.
As far as the characters go, I liked Rey even though it got a bit tiresome how she was just good at everything. She hops in the Millennium Falcon and outmaneuvers two (what I am going to assume are) trained fighter pilots. You can explain away most of it by saying she is strong in the force and just didn't know it yet. Fine, ok. But they stretched that to the breaking point when they had her do the jedi mind trick. How would she even know to try that?
Finn was pretty good, a little over the top at times, but he's the only one I felt any range from. Everyone else was pretty much stuck in one dimension. While the acting was not as horribly wooden as it was in the prequels, there is still a lot of room for improvement.
For those saying emo ren was struggling with being bad, I disagree. He didn't hesitate to order the slaughter of dozens of innocent lives. I would say he is pretty evil to me. All his thrashing about and temper tantrums I think are because he's a young guy and can't get laid. With the mask on, I found him to be nearly unintelligible. Bane with marbles in his mouth.
Cliffhanger endings are pretty annoying, but I guess everything is more or less set up for the next films. Luke will train Rey and that other guy will train ren. I assume we will learn more about this guy since I thought after palpatine and vader died there were no more sith.
Anyway, like I said, annoying story aside, I still somehow enjoyed the movie.
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