Is it safe here? or How I Caged My Very Own Nicolas
- Thread starter UrbanMasque
- Start date
madster111
Rookie
Well, i have both a penis and a goatee...Lien said:
MikeyVassallo
Regular
Line, you rule dude.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
You are a gross dude.
LinksOcarina
Rookie
madster111 said:
Is she a dick for doing that, yes. Should she be punished for doing so, yes.
Should you be harassing her over it? No.
Not your place to do so and frankly, it just makes you look like an asshole in the process, which is why no one is taking this seriously or really cares. Who gives a damn about your opinion of someone, last I checked you're not lynching her any time soon, and won't because you, like everyone else shouting from a couch, doesn't have the power or balls to really do that, or else they go to jail for that shit anyway.
I don't really care about the whole scandal or those involved, like Zoe Quinn. The whole scenario screams "dodgy" and I think both sides of the argument so to speak have issues. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the folks of WizardChan.
I've never heard of WizardChan until these events, or this scandal and controversy, whatever you wanna call it, but from my understanding WizardChan is an online community where a lot of the participants all have issues similar to one another such as depression and social anxiety, so they talk about it with one another, then they of course talk about other stuff too like games.
Apparently some individuals of WizardChan were found responsible for harassing Zoe Quinn, getting her personal details etc, but because of that, the WizardChan community as a whole was being punished and crucified for it. Sure, whoever went forth with the harassment should be punished for it because harassment of that scale is wrong, but it wasn't the community that did it, it was just individuals.
Ironically, Zoe Quinn's game was "Depression Quest", a "game" about education/awareness of depression, or something like that (I still haven't played it sorry). I saw Twitter posts and such from people supporting Zoe, calling the community of WizardChan things like "gutless virgins" and "losers" etc. Seems ironic to me.
Out of this entire scandal, I feel sorry for those WizardChan folk the most. Like I said, some of them, a few individuals were apparently found to be a part of Zoe's harassment, but only a few of 'em, by themselves, their whole community shouldn't be burned for the actions of a few idiots.
I've never heard of WizardChan until these events, or this scandal and controversy, whatever you wanna call it, but from my understanding WizardChan is an online community where a lot of the participants all have issues similar to one another such as depression and social anxiety, so they talk about it with one another, then they of course talk about other stuff too like games.
Apparently some individuals of WizardChan were found responsible for harassing Zoe Quinn, getting her personal details etc, but because of that, the WizardChan community as a whole was being punished and crucified for it. Sure, whoever went forth with the harassment should be punished for it because harassment of that scale is wrong, but it wasn't the community that did it, it was just individuals.
Ironically, Zoe Quinn's game was "Depression Quest", a "game" about education/awareness of depression, or something like that (I still haven't played it sorry). I saw Twitter posts and such from people supporting Zoe, calling the community of WizardChan things like "gutless virgins" and "losers" etc. Seems ironic to me.
Out of this entire scandal, I feel sorry for those WizardChan folk the most. Like I said, some of them, a few individuals were apparently found to be a part of Zoe's harassment, but only a few of 'em, by themselves, their whole community shouldn't be burned for the actions of a few idiots.
LinksOcarina
Rookie
Problem is everyone is acting out of mob mentality, doesn't matter which side of this whole thing you are on.
I guess it's just best to try and stay out of it. Well, maybe not best for the situation in a sense, but the best option for me personally. 
Less stress.
Less stress.
When it's Lien vs Madster, you know that there is no winning side. No one is ever going to take any of it seriously thanks to you guys.
UrbanMasque
Everyone Wears a Mask
true story.LinksOcarina said:
Gotta love these Nicholas Cage gifs.
WickedLiquid
Regular
I edited the title because
Feel free to edit it back urbz
Feel free to edit it back urbz
Commiebot
Novice
Despite Lien's struggles with objective facts and focus, he does highlight a point: If you dare call Quinn a name, trolls and opponents will highlight it front and center, as though that should be sufficient. Paint criticism as 'harassment' then misinterpret and assume at will.
In a way it's the perfect example of why people are angry. Wizardchan's 'harassment' of Quinn and her game was built into her 'being raided', and journalists published articles based solely on her side of the story. Escapist admitted they didn't care about how little evidence there was, it was a story that would get attention and was important enough to report.
Why? Quinn at the time was a nobody developer with a mediocre-at-best game that likely wasn't going to pass Greenlight. Why did that story rate being reported on, except being an 'aspiring female dev shunned by male gamers' hatchet job?
People believe game journalism is corrupt, dishonest, and fostering an agenda, or at the least a double standard. Evidence implies it's incestuous as well, shown to be willing to kill a story and insult the reader base, among other cardinal journalistic sins. The Gamergate movement outgrew Quinn weeks ago and is still going strong, yet none of the accused news sites beside Escapist have done anything meaningful in the wake of it.
What I want to see come out of this is some integrity and objectivity. Think a game is sexist? That goes into a separate editorial, not the review or its score. Do you have a relationship with a dev or company beyond a professional one? Either recuse yourself from the story or mention it first and foremost. Break the trust of your audience by way of corruption and/or directly insulting them? Get fired and replaced by people who can abide by the rules.
Throw in a fairly blanket element of 'don't censor stuff that follows the rules, just because you don't like it', and let me get back to hearing about and playing games in my free time.
In a way it's the perfect example of why people are angry. Wizardchan's 'harassment' of Quinn and her game was built into her 'being raided', and journalists published articles based solely on her side of the story. Escapist admitted they didn't care about how little evidence there was, it was a story that would get attention and was important enough to report.
Why? Quinn at the time was a nobody developer with a mediocre-at-best game that likely wasn't going to pass Greenlight. Why did that story rate being reported on, except being an 'aspiring female dev shunned by male gamers' hatchet job?
People believe game journalism is corrupt, dishonest, and fostering an agenda, or at the least a double standard. Evidence implies it's incestuous as well, shown to be willing to kill a story and insult the reader base, among other cardinal journalistic sins. The Gamergate movement outgrew Quinn weeks ago and is still going strong, yet none of the accused news sites beside Escapist have done anything meaningful in the wake of it.
What I want to see come out of this is some integrity and objectivity. Think a game is sexist? That goes into a separate editorial, not the review or its score. Do you have a relationship with a dev or company beyond a professional one? Either recuse yourself from the story or mention it first and foremost. Break the trust of your audience by way of corruption and/or directly insulting them? Get fired and replaced by people who can abide by the rules.
Throw in a fairly blanket element of 'don't censor stuff that follows the rules, just because you don't like it', and let me get back to hearing about and playing games in my free time.
MikeyVassallo
Regular
It isn't about name calling dude. Threats of sexual violence and harm aren't just an Internet troll game.
madster111
Rookie
She pissed off 4chan and got her shit kicked.StalfrosCC said:
It's happened to hundreds, if not thousands of people in the past. The only reason people (read: you) are still trying to distract from the bigger issue at large is because she's more connected and now it's a 'feminist' thing, where the big bad male 'gamers' are picking on the poor little dainty flower.
Nobody would give even half a shit if this happened to a guy, and we'd actually be able to talk about the things that actually matter and need to be changed within our massive, 80bil/yr industry.
This corruption and connected publications highlights a massive issue that needs to be changed ASAP, especially with the indie community taking over from AAA titles. What if your indie game pisses off one of the people on this mailing list? It gets no coverage, you get no sales, and your hopes and dreams die. That is bullshit that needs to be changed, right there.
I actually somewhat agree with madster....what the fuck is going on with my life?!
I think it's impossible to fully agree with him unless you're a total sociopath, but he's right about a few things. This is a massive industry, and having the heads of several different publications all cozy together as friends who choose who to blacklist and who to promote is damaging to us, the consumers. And you don't need to be a tinfoil hat wearing tea party member to see that they're all friends, just spend ten minutes looking over their twitters.Green_Lantern said:
That said, somehow Lien is right about stuff too. No one fucking deserves the amount of harassment Quinn has received over this, nor does anyone deserve death threats or anything of the sort. And we can't just wipe the perpetrators off as just some guys, because you never know when one of those people will actually follow through.
But still, I'm going to go back to my original stance of "this never should've gone this far to begin with." She should've just apologized, and the others implicated (most of which were confirmed, with one by Zoe herself when she told his ex-girlfriend "I didn't know you two were together still at the time" on Twitter) should've done the same and then stepped down. Because despite what Lien says, this isn't slut shaming to be upset that she did something that was professionally wrong (sleeping with her boss) nor is it bad to be upset at the journalists who went completely against all journalistic ethics by developing a deep personal, intimate, sexual, and possibly even romantic relationship with someone they write about. In a good, just world where the unethical people get shaken from the tree, they should've just stepped down and that would've been that.
But that didn't happen.
Instead, nothing happened.
On top of that, if you bring up that something should've happened, you're labelled a misogynist/bigot/lord knows what else, despite the fact that this is barely even about Quinn. (Though it doesn't help that there are people like Madster who are saying she should be lynched)
And that's why people are mad. Because it hasn't been since Gamespot fired Jeff Gerstman has the video game press been so blatant with its corruption and lack of ethics, and yet nothing is happening.
I love video games, but the fact that there is a group of people who determine what games get good press and what games don't sickens me, and the fact that I can't talk about that without being labelled as one of many derogatory things is even worse.
But really, the big reason why this shouldn't have gotten so big is that everyone who pays attention should've realized by now that video games have a lousy, lousy press, and I really just hope that GR continues to do its own thing and never become mixed up in this mess.
UrbanMasque
Everyone Wears a Mask
Longo_2_guns said:
another true statement
