UrbanMasque said:
From what I can see - people like links,
LinksOcarina said:
although there are no good sources out there for this entire debacle so far...
commie,
Commiebot said:
The frightening thing is these folks come together to silence debate, or label anyone who disagrees as being some manner of '-ist' or '-phobe', then celebrate censorship because they've silenced the '-ists' and '-phobes'. The doublethink in games journalism and what I've seen on Twitter is boggling, and talking with the indie devs who are shut out because they don't drink the kool-aid is depressing as hell.
and madster
madster111 said:
She shut down a charity event so her scam 'charity' event (that pays to her personal paypal) could make her more money, who cares what that cunt gets.
madster111 said:
who cares what that cunt gets.
madster111 said:
are trying to look past her at the overall "conspiracy web", but they're constantly being confronted with Zoe being used as a shield so it seems like people are harassing her (which some people admittedly are) but because you want to know more about this doesn't place you in the MRA troll category.
Ok fine, i'll say my piece here then i'll head off. But first...
All right... let's dive into this. If this long text bored you, chances are you were only here for the nic cage gifs.
There will be some after the TL;DR.
Hey urban, it's "opinion" like these why Gamergate/quinspiracy/Obama is born in Kanya discussion gets discredited since day one, not because it's being entwined into a conspiracy web. Links is playing his own version of the word "skepticism" when he forgot that word means any sources he can get may be totally wrong including the one that challenges the popular stance that he hates, Commi is just letting his passion get the best of him instead of trying to form an actual argument but ultimately falls into logical fallacies of none-existing issues and then... we got Madster... enough said about him cause if we do, he's going to start posting some chat logs with red markers and then say something silly like how an indie event, that's being hosted by 5 guys to help their friends and colleagues get attention in the press, is corrupt or something crazy like that. These are the only people who want to talk about this issue with you. Let that sink in.
But No, i am not going to address to what's really wrong with this discussion. No, just the worst part in all of this. And that is you Urban.
Which is why I've been avoiding this thread for a good while now until you said that last piece there, cause like Stall said, we love you. But damn it, you can be an a-hole. It's you and only you here in GR who think this is a valuable topic to discuss by not taking a stance in this. Not saying you and those three guys up there don't discuss this between you and each other nor does Reddit threads don't exist, but like that video i just linked before said,
No. ONE. CARES. about this. Every con goers just shrugged it off or rolled theirs eyes cause no one wants to join mob mentality who doesn't have a clear goal (and still doesn't, corruption in what? to whom? for whom?). Everyone only want to play games and none of the issues discussed here or anywhere is stopping them from doing that. Game critics facepalm as soon as they see the word "4-Chan" on the screen grabs. Game Devs, be it indie or AAA majorly agree that this "movement" does NOT defend them and discourage new people to participate in the industry. In fact, some of them even think that even though they are not being named, this is attacking them, making them feel like they are being silenced by a mob mentality. Some actually WERE silenced and even left the industry all together! (nice job "fixing" the industry!) I am not getting into what the marginalized community member think of all of this because people like Madster and Commi have their comments being defended by you, Urbs, for the principle of "debating". But please keep making it sound the victims are "shielding the criticism" instead of actually admitting that... your stance makes people who feel targeted feel even more miserable in general. This fake neutrality is destroying and dividing the gaming community more then the conspirators do. You are not uniting people here, just defending the most passionate side.
And then, there are these points that are the main motivation why the gaming press (and anyone with rational thoughts) are staying away from this:
-Zoe Quinn sleeping with the five guys for good press has been debunked in the first week. Her personal life around her EX is none of anyone's concern except for those who like to "slut-shame" her or women in general (that's an actual term, it's a form of Ad Hominem, look it up).
-Kotaku/Polygon covering up their trace being this also has been debunked since this was a none-issue to begin with. Any article that defends their authors is... just that. Like any news media, an editor has every right to stand by their writers. No one is being bribed or blackmailed. They are just being Bros.
-Harrassers, and by that i mean people with a personal agenda against Kotaku, Polygon, Zoe quinn, indie devs, phil fish, people who hates being told that their games are not perfect, are using this debacle to justify and being encouraged to perform personal attacks, insults and hacking against various group of people, some not even related to the mess while still clinging to the claim this is helping everyone so they can go to sleep with a smile on their face and more therapy session for their victims.
-Game Devs, publishers, industry are all either laughing at this mess, crying, or angry that their ACTUAL concerns are not being addressed (bad management, in-work discrimination, bribery, enforced corporate sponsors, employee lay off for bad reviews, not being defended for criticizing the industry and the gaming community, etc...)
-Multimillions gaming corporation have yet to be addressed for their behavior except and maybe the Bioware and EA employee cause they defended the victims of the harassment. That part where the Sony CEO had to land because of a fake bomb threat is irrelevant. Instead, people address quite passionately the indie companies, indie conventions, indie press and indie game devs who most are struggling just to find funding and supports yet alone decent lawyers for copyright claims and are being discouraged to continue their works everyday. People justify this by saying "well it's different cause they are a-holes" and I'm like... "Have you met Bobby Kotick"?
-Has been proven again, and again, that this whole "debacle" was created in 4chan boards, reddit threads and whatever echo-chambers that refuse to listen to rational thoughts and even being encouraged by Zoe's disgruntled Ex to make this movement into something bigger like "gaming corruption" so their bias views on gaming and their behavior against people's gender, race and sexuality have value. There are people who still claims this isn't about this anymore... doesn't change the fact said boards and Ex and linking their blogs and twitter comments while taking the credits for it. I'll give you a hint, popular opinion doesn't always mean it's fact. The world was proven to be round thousands of years ago but it took another thousand years for the average people to catch that concept. Disbelieving all sides but your own will only enforced an entrenched morality unless you challenge it first before turning it into an issue.
-That previous point is also the main reason why gaming media does not cover this conspiracy and not because they are under a "web of silence" or whatever is being thrown around against them. Let's also add that the mainstream media,
from all around the world, cannot see any value in all of this except for the harassers and people pushing a right wing like agenda in social media calling this "the new Tea Party of the internet". So unless Zoe Quinn/kotaku/polygon/Obama's racist pastor also slept with German, French, Japanese, Italian, Arabic and Spanish press people too, it seems that everyone is "placing you in the MRA troll category" even with everything addressed here. The media can only conclude that this discussion never had a support to stand on while everyone in it is being fooled into thinking it does.
-And finally, the final point and the most important one. Because anyone neutral in this who tries to bring in this discussion (like you Urbz) are trying too hard to make it meaningful and distancing themselves from the quote "few" harassers by claiming they either do not speak for the majority or that they are being addressed by this. Cause they are not... they keep popping up, they keep trying to ignore the "other side" which is pretty much anyone who disagree with them, most of theses harassers do not know who Quinn is nor have they even got involve with her, they see a unguided mob, they jump in to throw stones. They've done so in the past, they will do so again in the future. Saying nothing during a stone throwing only gives more value to the mob mentality. There is nothing noble in doing this, there is nothing noble in supporting a movement that tolerates them or just claims "not all gamers". Again, this reminds me of when (White) people clinged to the idea that Obama was born in Kanya and then we had (other white) people who didn't believe in this none-sense... but still wanted Obama to address that issue because "Transparency" and supported the birther for a while. Still didn't stop them after he showed the long form birth certificate.
By the way, not going to link screen grabs or videos or whatever to each of their points. This isn't a matter of facts, it's a matter of dignity and respect that is being addressed in my list.
So bottom line, Urbz, if you want people who want to have a meaningful discussion on corruption in the industry here,
follow the victims' of the harassment point of view (not just Quinn) and realize
this is an BIGGER issue that needs to be addressed instead of just shrugging it as random trolls doing random things. As much as you want to talk about corruption, this cannot be ignored because it's being linked. Fail to realize so and then nothing and i mean NOTHING of value will be learned in this thread no matter how much Madster hates Phil Fish and gives you hope that random racist anon is the hero we need. Show that Quinn has nothing to do in all of this not by saying she's not the topic anymore, but
BY DEFENDING HER from her harassers no matter what you think of her personally, start listing everything good she's done and why she doesn't deserve the hate beyond the fact she's a human being. And not just her, also anyone else who tried to defend her and got bullied into silence, anyone who claimed that the gamers are irrational people will still link this discussion to the attacks but gets shut down under waves of comments and name calling e-mail. All those people, you gotta start saying they got every right to speak up and stopping them or insulting them is morally wrong starting in this very own thread. Fail to do that and the people sensible to sexism issues, the indie people, the gaming media, the gaming developers, the gaming publishers, the one in charge of corruption and the mainstream press will still think the gamers needs to grow up and people outside of gaming and will still think we are a niche group who performs circle jerk for the sake of their own ego. Regardless of any "proof" that is being thrown around here, this is a hate movement that is being rejected and ignored by anyone outside and are slowly starting to agrees that maybe "Gamers are dead". Prove it wrong, Urbz, not by showing what we can learn of this, but by listing what is wrong in all of this first beyond "Harassment is bad M'kay?" Lead by example, not by principle.
Of course, a better way is to simply abandon this thread and just reset it under another thread unrelevant to quinn/phil fish/gamergate/Bhengazi but somethings tells me you still want to find any "valuable" discussion as you feel the conspirators are being victimized for reasons not linked to their choice of words. You still refuse to see their flaws and that's why me and Stal are sighing at you right now.
Like my father once said, "You can't talk about fixing the plumbing while the house is on fire." So, doze off the flames, Urbz,
UrbanMasque said:
UrbanMasque said:
For those of you not familiar - here are some quick links if you're too lazy to Google Quinnspiracy.
UrbanMasque said:
If you don't care, dont comment - but the "indifferent" parties trying to stymie discussion based on this line of reasoning is SOOOOOOOOO interesting. Who should be addressing the fuzzy ethics here if the businesses/journalists/reviewers are complicit. No one? How long until this type of behaviour then becomes industry standard if you don't flag it as fucked.
UrbanMasque said:
Journalism in gaming IS NOT DEAD. Like most good ideas in gaming, it has just been crowd sourced by the gamers. Who also are not dead.
This is awesome. I wish I could give one person credit and pat them on the back for this, but its been an anonymous group effort... god i love the internet.
And don't add fuel to flames by saying it's needed.
TL;DR
I'm out! You can select pieces of my long text to dismantle or ignore it all whatever. Don't care anymore cause I got a GaymerX convention to prepare for next year so that me, GR staff, kotaku writters, polygon writters and the couple of thousand LGBTQ audience can all sleep with Quinn to corrupt gaming some more like we all did in the previous two years. Can't wait to see what her Ex will come up next into duping Urbz he's helping gaming history!
Disclaimer: Quinn is one of the nicest girl you can meet in real life. The same cannot be said of Madster of whom Urbz is saying is awesome.
Disclaimer disclaimer: I have not met Madster and probably never will until he grows out of his south park mentality no matter how much weed he will be sharing. I also suspect he slept with Urbz seeing he think his conspiracy links are "Awesome" even though anyone with a brain cell sees how bogus it is.
Meanwhile, in ferguson.
