Apparently, science is dead

[Quinnykins]

Sometimes scientists can be incredibly wrong.

Yes, and when legitimate scientists realize that they are wrong, they formulate new hypotheses, perform additional experiments, and draw new conclusions. Religion does not.

Which is interesting. But hasn't religion also done that. Martin Luther being the most prominant of the people to go "Hold fire - I don't think this is right." But then you also have Henry 8th. But that was more a "I don't like it, lets change it." Almost like a scientist changing the results to suit his needs if we are to draw parallels.

Both have been manipulated, reassesed and changed.

The bottom line is that when all faith in science has gone we still have faith in faith.

Science is not susceptible to a lack of faith because it does not require faith.

Are you sure? Scientists need people to believe them. If you don't have people believing that scientists are right then what can the scientists do exactly? They still have to convince people that their developments and findings are beneficial to be accepted by the population. Religion has been around far longer than the concept of 'science' so it has a head start. The argument now is that Science has to convince Religion that it has some basis in fact.

You can see what is being said though? That both parties have believers and without such they can't feasably exist. Science would be able to develop if people shunned it. Same with religion.

The Religion Vs. Science debate will keep going even if science can some how proove the non-existance of Captain God with the Big Beard/other deity of your choice hands down. It's like the Egg and Chicken debate or indeed the age old question: "How long is a piece of string?"

In response, I will provide one of my favorite quotations. In reference to "Loose Change 2nd Edition," Ted Goranson writes:

"I recommend you see this. I do. Its because it helps illustrate the sheer lunacy of belief. When people want to believe something, no fact, no confrontation with logic or reality will deter that belief, rationalizations and explanations growing to immense complexity. Blind spots enlarge to nearly the entire field of vision.

"Its an absolutely amazing phenomenon and it makes you wonder what beliefs you hold yourself that have some conspiratorial agency. This silly, offensive thing really did make me wonder if there is someone somewhere who knows me to be as stupid in some of my assumptions as I think these guys are."

That is indeed a very good quote. And that is Mr. Ted Goranson's point of view. Unfortunately for some people without a structure of belief they wouldn't have any reason to live (I guess.. That is an extreme point, granted). Religion is a comfort to most people and yes, a way of life and living. Hence why this debate will carry on. Obviously for as long as Religion and Science exist.

The following argument will be which will loose it's followers first? Religion or Science?

 

[TheNesMan]

The bottom line is that when all faith in science has gone we still have faith in faith.

Science is not susceptible to a lack of faith because it does not require faith.

Are you sure? Scientists need people to believe them. If you don't have people believing that scientists are right then what can the scientists do exactly? They still have to convince people that their developments and findings are beneficial to be accepted by the population. Religion has been around far longer than the concept of 'science' so it has a head start. The argument now is that Science has to convince Religion that it has some basis in fact.

Faith is just belief without reason or logic. With religion, the majority of the time you're believing in something that can't be proven, a leap of faith (i.e belief in a god). With sciense, you're presented evidence that supports the scientists claims, so while you may believe what they're saying is true, it's hardly faith.

 

[The_Cookster]

I'd say the majority of support for the Big Bang theory and Darwinism is based on faith, hence why arguements against creationism hasn't been concluded. ^

 

[Gamermorph44]

There is absolutely no evidence for the Creation theory, but there is evidence for some of the events in the Bible.

However, people need to realize that the Bible is a book of morals and not a history textbook.

 

[malakian]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

 

[-FCM-]

Ahahaha, quality.

Also, I cannot believe IntoTheRain's last post. "I have evidence, but i'm not going to give it, just take my word for it". What if it went down that way in court? "I have evidence Dave_Matthews is a rapist. I'm not going to present it, but it's firm and conclusive. Take him away."

it's not court, and i don't care what anyone here thinks about my views on this topic.. and i never said it's firm, and conclusive by any means, i just said there is evidence... it's just what i think..

and i'm probably the only poster on this board who believes in God, i'd almost be willing to bet.. it's a board full of nerds, nerds believe in science, not God... why would I argue with twenty posters, a good number of which would verbally anhialate me with or without an argument of any sort...

exxxxactly..

moving on..

EDIT : just noticed the "just take my word for it"..

this was in no way said in my post.. shouldn't even have wasted my time defending myself.. but thats to be expected from you.. anything for an argument..

Well, most of the people here are at least agnostic. But the only religious people here were...eh...me and this guy named K0rndog. But I dunno where he went.

For the billionth time, there are so many things on Earth that remain a mystery to us, why on Earth are we coming to final conclusions about the reasons for existence that lie on the very edge of the Universe itself?!

 

[intoTheRain]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

 

[TheNesMan]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

 

[intoTheRain]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

All we have seen is minor adaptation to ones environment...

Would an all knowing God not be smart enough to allow it's creations adapt to their surroundings to avoid death, or a severely hindered way of life?

I would like to think so...

 

[intoTheRain]

I'd say the majority of support for the Big Bang theory and Darwinism is based on faith

Quite...

And as for what TheNesMan said... You are putting your faith into the scientists hands, to correctly perform theire tests, to collect the proper data, to tell the truth...

Faith is simply believing in something you know nothing about... Sure you can read theories, and read about discoveries, but in the end, you don't truly know the basis of these theories, and you are putting your faith in their hands..

That is faith...

And the Big Bang Theory, is faith anyway you look at it..

 

[TheNesMan]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

All we have seen is minor adaptation to ones environment...

Would an all knowing God not be smart enough to allow it's creations adapt to their surroundings to avoid death, or a severely hindered way of life?

I would like to think so...

Adaption to ones environment to enable them to survive is evolution. To say that's not so is ignorant. Why is it so hard for you to admit that evolution has been witnessed? You seem to quite easily believe in a god, which is a complete leap of faith, but you can't look at the evidence that has been presented(i'm referring to that bird in the topic of course) and come to the blatantly obvious conclusion? It seems odd to me that you dismiss evolution when we have seen it, but you embrace god when we have not seen it.

 

[intoTheRain]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

All we have seen is minor adaptation to ones environment...

Would an all knowing God not be smart enough to allow it's creations adapt to their surroundings to avoid death, or a severely hindered way of life?

I would like to think so...

Adaption to ones environment to enable them to survive is evolution. To say that's not so is ignorant. Why is it so hard for you to admit that evolution has been witnessed? You seem to quite easily believe in a god, which is a complete leap of faith, but you can't look at the evidence that has been presented(i'm referring to that bird in the topic of course) and come to the blatantly obvious conclusion? It seems odd to me that you dismiss evolution when we have seen it, but you embrace god when we have not seen it.

At what point did I deny witnessing Micro Evolution?

EDIT : You putting words into my mouth.. or actually taking them out is ignorant.. The exact reason I often choose not to engage in arguments on this board..

 

[TheNesMan]

Micro evolution is evolution.

 

[intoTheRain]

Micro evolution is evolution.

But it's not Macro Evolution, and it does not in any way strengthen Darwins theory enough for me to change my beliefs.. Sure it's interesting, but I need more..

Quite the leap between Micro and Macro evolution, and to have not have witnessed Macro, and put all your eggs in that basket is also quite a leap...

Just as is my belief in a higher power.. But thats what I have chose to believe, and feel is correct...

Nothin wrong with that, and nothin wrong with what you believe either..

 

[TheNesMan]

You'll never witness what you call macro evolution. It would simply take too long for you to see big changes, or big leaps in the biology of an animal. That's why small advances are important.

 

[intoTheRain]

You'll never witness what you call macro evolution. It would simply take too long for you to see big changes, or big leaps in the biology of an animal.

Faith..

 

[maca2kx]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

All we have seen is minor adaptation to ones environment...

Would an all knowing God not be smart enough to allow it's creations adapt to their surroundings to avoid death, or a severely hindered way of life?

I would like to think so...

Adaption to ones environment to enable them to survive is evolution. To say that's not so is ignorant. Why is it so hard for you to admit that evolution has been witnessed? You seem to quite easily believe in a god, which is a complete leap of faith, but you can't look at the evidence that has been presented(i'm referring to that bird in the topic of course) and come to the blatantly obvious conclusion? It seems odd to me that you dismiss evolution when we have seen it, but you embrace god when we have not seen it.

Uh oh, not quite. Evolution is the gradual process resulting from natural diversity present in a species. Adaptation becomes evolution when successful traits manifested from superior genes are continued on due to the extended survival of the 'owner' of the stronger genes. Evolution can be seen by looking at fossils from different time periods and so on but it's like watching a kid grow up, if you're with them all the time you won't notice it whereas if you take a step back for a few years you'll come back to see the kid developed by a massive amount and will notice it more than their parents.

Anyway, I don't see how people can deny the idea of evolution in this day and age, I'm not saying ignore the possibility of God (I do for the most part but that's my own opinion), religion and evolution can coexist quite peacefully and the theory of evolution sits with me far easier than Creationism could ever do.

An intelligent God wouldn't design animals that couldn't adapt to their environment? Well true enough but couldn't an intelligent God design animals that could evolve to further suit their environment? It's only a step away from adaptation and works better in the long run after all.

Now to save you all another long read I'll just refer you to Firewall's opinions, I share them all anyway and not only does it save me the time and you the reading time, he also put it just as well if not better than I could.

Sam

 

[intoTheRain]

Some people appear to be a bit off center with their facts here. Evolution has been observed.

Micro evolution has been observed...

Evolution happens in small steps over a long period of time, we observed one of the steps. It has been observed. And FCM, mikey was religious too, he was just really annoying with it all because of his ignorance.

All we have seen is minor adaptation to ones environment...

Would an all knowing God not be smart enough to allow it's creations adapt to their surroundings to avoid death, or a severely hindered way of life?

I would like to think so...

Adaption to ones environment to enable them to survive is evolution. To say that's not so is ignorant. Why is it so hard for you to admit that evolution has been witnessed? You seem to quite easily believe in a god, which is a complete leap of faith, but you can't look at the evidence that has been presented(i'm referring to that bird in the topic of course) and come to the blatantly obvious conclusion? It seems odd to me that you dismiss evolution when we have seen it, but you embrace god when we have not seen it.

Uh oh, not quite. Evolution is the gradual process resulting from natural diversity present in a species. Adaptation becomes evolution when successful traits manifested from superior genes are continued on due to the extended survival of the 'owner' of the stronger genes. Evolution can be seen by looking at fossils from different time periods and so on but it's like watching a kid grow up, if you're with them all the time you won't notice it whereas if you take a step back for a few years you'll come back to see the kid developed by a massive amount and will notice it more than their parents.

Anyway, I don't see how people can deny the idea of evolution in this day and age, I'm not saying ignore the possibility of God (I do for the most part but that's my own opinion), religion and evolution can coexist quite peacefully and the theory of evolution sits with me far easier than Creationism could ever do.

An intelligent God wouldn't design animals that couldn't adapt to their environment? Well true enough but couldn't an intelligent God design animals that could evolve to further suit their environment? It's only a step away from adaptation and works better in the long run after all.

Now to save you all another long read I'll just refer you to Firewall's opinions, I share them all anyway and not only does it save me the time and you the reading time, he also put it just as well if not better than I could.

Sam

<3 you &. firewall, 4 realz

 

[TheNesMan]

"Adaptation becomes evolution when successful traits manifested from superior genes are continued on due to the extended survival of the 'owner' of the stronger genes"

That's exactly what happens when pesticides are used for farming. The majority of the pests are killed, but the ones that aren't are the ones that carry on their genes to their children, so the children are then immune from the pesticide. I never thought about it as evolution until i read what you wrote.

 

[Autrailopithics-]

Sorry to sort of change the subject, feel free to disregard this post if you feel it will just start a flamefest,
but if there were a god, why would he make himself invisible/featureless, litter the world with countless conflicting religions, but then require you to choose the right path or he sends you straight to the eternal BBQ pit?