EdEdEd said:
it would seem to me that people would sit around saying "I would like to create such-and-such, but odds are I won't make any money, so what's the point of putting any time and effort into it?" Obviously there are those who don't think like that, but you can't assume no one has a profit motive.
Let's not take things I say and remove key words and insert your words in an attempt to validate your argument. Protection by the law does not equate to making money and profit. No one has a right to a profit. Your creation of something does not entitle you to having someone buy it, which is about the only way you could make money and turn a profit. Protection of intellectual property says this: If someone uses "your idea" then you are entitled to a court hearing and perhaps the results of any ruling.
Everyone knows that if they were to produce and market an idea, a product, that they are fully assuming the responsibility of recurring no income to offset the production of said idea or product. But not even protection of intellectual property guarantees a producer to a profit on his invention.
EdEdEd said:
... if you have an idea that requires a ten second Disney clip, than it is NOT entirely yours. It is like building an addition to a house; yes, it may have its own structure, it might be much larger and better than the house, but it needs that other property to exist or else it's missing a wall somewhere.
How is the idea not entirely that person's? Has someone else made a movie in such a manner that uses that Disney clip in such a manner? No. Your following analogy is not clear. What other property are you talking about? Clarify. A proper analogy would be this: Person A has a table he built with his own wood. He has an idea for a new table that requires the wood of Person B. Person A uses Person B's wood and creates a new table. Is this the analogy you're trying to make? If so, I would agree: Person A's new table is not his because Person A has no right to Person B's; it is not his. Person B's wood is his established property.
You have not established how Disney's clip is Disney's property. Is it the film it is recorded on? Is it the exact sequence of film? How is an idea instantiated as property?
This has not yet been clarified by any defender of intellectual property: Viz., how ideas are property that can be owned.
EdEdEd said:
And I think that helps prove my point, that the grand list of ideas is NOT infinite, as you keep insisting. There are only so many stories, there are only so many tunes, and if Disney created the ten second clip that your movie needs as a jumping-off point, they deserve to be compensated for that.
Again, please don't take things I've said and change the wording in an attempt to validate your argument. I never said the Disney clip was a jumping-off point. I left it entirely ambiguous. In fact, one such movie has encountered production difficulties because the documentary contains a clip of the Simpsons in the background, not even an integral part of the film, but part of it nonetheless, and royalties would have to be paid. Why should the owner of the Simpsons deserve to be compensated? Because they created the clip? (Not even that; Matt Groehning said the clip's use was OK by him, but the corporate owner overruled this.)
Creation is not sufficient for property rights. If I bust into your house and make a life-size statue of myself from the wood in your house does that mean I deserve the rights to it? No, because I do not own the wood itself. The same goes: Disney would have to own the ideas that were used to create such an expression. How does Disney own these ideas?
Further, ideas, again, are infinite. Can new property be created simply by the work of your imagination? That is, can you create new houses, new tables, new shoes, simply by
thinking about them? No, because the actual resources needed to make houses, tables, and shoes are scarce and limited, and these resources can be properly owned because they cannot be held by multiple people simultaneously. However, new ideas can be created simply by the work of your imagination. Let's not get semantical and argue over "new" and whether the so-called new ideas haven't been thought of before. Have they? Can this be proved? Not satisfactorily. Further, these "new" ideas can be held by multiple people simultaneously. If you come up with an idea for a new table and tell it to me then I can think of this new table at the same time you are. That is, this idea is not rivalrous, it is not limited, it is not scarce. Further, I might imagine this table of yours differently. Do I imagine it in the same shade of brown as you do? With as rounded edges as you do? Not unless you are painfully detailed, and this demonstrates just how ideas differentiate and are infinite.
EdEdEd said:
Does ignoring somebody's actual point by shouting your opinion in a vaguely insulting manner constitute a valid argument?
It does not!
When did this occur? I did not ignore somebody's actual point. I was responding to another discussion. And there was no shouting involved. My exclamation point was a sign of excitement. CAPITAL LETTERS ARE A SIGN OF SHOUTING. You see, to properly use text as a valid medium of communication some rules of the medium must be understood by those involved, just as a heightened voice indicates shouting. Also, please illustrate where the insult was made. There was no insult intentioned, and these misunderstandings again show how ideas are infinite, how you perceive and imagine a textual argument differently than I.
EdEdEd said:
(And to not be deemed entirely hypocritical: NicKmet is not ragging on written for for not being oral communication, he's saying that it is different, and much harder to make yourself understood. Not a bad thing inherently, but something to be concerned with.
No one said he was. My questions were for informational purposes, not derogatory, so please stop insinuating. I said just as much that it was different, and it is obvious we agreed on this point. And text is only harder to make yourself understood through if you yourself do not understood the rules by which the medium operates.
EdEdEd said:
Meanwhile, you're the one who said that text can and should emulate oral communication:
Silent_Player said:
Emotion is captured by textual force: a harsh-sounding adjective to describe something, or specific use of punctuation, and so forth. Facial expressions are replaced by the design of text: is it terse and tight or long-winded and loose? The reading of a text supplements its own facial expression.
... which you then argue AGAINST. Text replaces facial expressions and emotion, and text cannot emulate oral communication. Which is it?)
My argument is this: That emotion and expression are not inherently displayed better orally or textually, or even displayed inherently in one manner: they are displayed differently in both mediums; both mediums allow for a variety of emotion and expression. I then proceeded to illustrate this with examples.