Tragedy in Aurora during Dark Knight Rises midnight showing

[Icepick]

to weigh in on gun laws, Canada has plenty of guns, especially when you consider our small population. I don't think the issue so much is that guns are available, as the issue lies within the American mentality towards guns.

Everyone there is so quick to grab a firearm, and you can argue all day that if no one had guns, this wouldn't have happened, or that if everyone had guns, this man wouldn't have been able to take the number of lives he did.

I think the real crux of the problem is the mindset Americans had drilled into them. It's a constant assault on the senses by news media, it's continuously pumping the average American full of fear, that they believe a firearm is a necessity, and as such you are so quick to draw them.

My two cents on gun control aside, I don't think it pertains towards this situation, he showed no signs of insanity beforehand, in actuality he was seen as a bright, friendly individual. I believe, given the evidence, this man would have attempted it with a butterknife if that's what was available to him. To utilize this tragedy as a means to forward and solidify your opinions on the issue of gun control should be condemned, as both sides of the argument are guilty of it.

 

[Wes]

Icepick, if the man used a knife I guarantee their wouldn't have been THAT MANY casualties....

 

[Icepick]

Icepick, if the man used a knife I guarantee their wouldn't have been THAT MANY casualties....

That wasn't my point, the point is he would have still attempted to take lives, he just utilized what was available, in this case it was a gun, if guns had of been outlawed (seeing as he would have apparently passed any screening required to obtain one should there be registry requirements like in Canada) he would have used the next available weapon, be it tonnes of farm shit for an explosive, or a knife.

You can't focus on the device used to take lives, but the reasoning the person had to take them. Even if you removed guns from all of America, those who want them will have a way to get them, that just means people who will use them responsibly and correctly would have no access to them.

All that the supposed gun control laws will do is enforce harsher penalties on those who wield them, it is by no means a way to prevent deaths occurring, its reactionary only

The man that cut up a victim on the greyhound bus in Canada used a knife, should we ban knives? Only sell knives to those that pass a screening (which again, in this case would have been useless)

 

[intoTheRain]

im actually extremely intrigued to find out what this guys motive was.

it's not very often there appears to be NO warning signs before a tragedy like this. he could be completely fucked and just hid it extremely well.

maybe he thought he was bane..

i'll be on high alert when i watch batman monday night

 

[Green_Lantern]

maybe he thought he was bane..

There's been reports that he was the Joker.

 

[Sightless]

I don't trust anyone but myself and my family, and you shouldn't either.

I don't trust my family more than I trust my friends. Depending on what you mean by "trust" -- if you are trusting them not to kill you, aren't they actually going to be much more likely to kill you than a random stranger?

Reiterating points, stating my opinion: The only way for us to stop killings by guns is if guns become impossible to produce. That's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Anything can be made into a weapon (carrots, anyone?), but it's the will to carry out such violence that's the underlying cause of all this. You could argue for a number of frameworks to encourage a better sense of "morality," I guess, but I think it's more about integration, adaptation, tolerance, acceptance, &c. If no one's pissed, or feels like they need to make a large-scale, violent gesture to show up on the radar, then perhaps this wouldn't happen.

Many of you may think that this is as impossible as eliminating guns. I would argue, however, that any reduction in feelings of animosity and intolerance is going to lower violence in general, and it's going to be effective to whatever degree. We do have to keep in mind that, as far as I can tell, these types of events are examples of atypical behaviour. This kind of goes back to what many others have pointed out here: telling typicals not to kill people isn't going to do anything; it's the special cases that we need to pay attention to. But even in special cases, there are those who are otherwise typical and have just been pushed over the proverbial edge, and we can perhaps contrast this with people who, for whatever reason, don't understand the rules and expectations we've set up as society.

Fun facts: I live in Canada, don't own a gun, have no desire to own a gun, am not opposed to the existence of guns, am against the proliferation of guns, and currently don't fear people (around me) who own guns more than those who don't.

 

[daverabbit]

maybe he thought he was bane..

There's been reports that he was the Joker.

Heard this as well but have chalked it up to internet rumour until I hear something more solid.

Such a sad event but unless it starts becoming a weekly occurance I doubt much will change in this world. With the billions of people across the globe there are bound to be a few crazies. Is this the price of living in a free society, having to deal with the ramifications of the occasional nut job?

 

[Bretimus_v2]

He said it, the police chief was the one who said it on the news.

 

[Silios]

maybe he thought he was bane..

There's been reports that he was the Joker.

Heard this as well but have chalked it up to internet rumour until I hear something more solid.

Such a sad event but unless it starts becoming a weekly occurance I doubt much will change in this world. With the billions of people across the globe there are bound to be a few crazies. Is this the price of living in a free society, having to deal with the ramifications of the occasional nut job?

It's interesting to note that the serial killer is a relatively new phenomenon in culture, though accounts can be said to have existed in our past, an increase flux was seen around the turn of the century. The mass killer however, is something very new to society. I've heard arguments ranging from the demasculinity of males in western culture, to blaming media, and even MKULTRA victims.

I will say this, James Holmes had a lot of similarities with Ted Kaczynski. I'm not implying they shared the same modus operandi, only that they come from the same background of highly intelligent individuals. I will not speculate on this, but I presume in the coming months we'll know more about Holmes's motive, if any at all.

 

[Wes]

Icepick, if the man used a knife I guarantee their wouldn't have been THAT MANY casualties....

That wasn't my point, the point is he would have still attempted to take lives, he just utilized what was available, in this case it was a gun, if guns had of been outlawed (seeing as he would have apparently passed any screening required to obtain one should there be registry requirements like in Canada) he would have used the next available weapon, be it tonnes of farm s*** for an explosive, or a knife.

And my point remains the same. If he used a knife he wouldn't have massacred as many people as he would have with a gun. If he was unable to get a gun he would've still acted out, like you said, he would have used what was available. But there would have been a significant decrease in the amount of carnage had he stabbed people instead of going off on a shooting spree.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, yeah yeah I get it. But if it's the individual who is disturbed then why are we giving him a gun in the first place? Think about it, the sporting goods store supplied him with the tools for mass murder.

The man that cut up a victim on the greyhound bus in Canada used a knife, should we ban knives? Only sell knives to those that pass a screening (which again, in this case would have been useless)

That was terrible. Imagine if he had a loaded AK-47 instead? You can't stop all violence, but we can help decrease it and the best way to start is by not handing guns out to anybody who wants one. A knife is NOT a gun just like a gun is NOT a bomb. We need to stop this backwards way of thinking that owning a gun is a right, when in fact it is a privilege. And I just don't care who disagrees, because I've got too many horror stories in my own life involving guns that will tell you you're wrong.

Without getting into stories involving my family and guns I'll just say that I once worked security at a hospital. Usually I would just watch over the attempted suicide patients but I also saw a fair share of gunshot victims. And I'll tell you, just because someone survives a shooting doesn't mean they're ok, not by a long run. A gunshot can take away your ability to walk, a gunshot can damage a vital organ, a gunshot can change your life forever.

If you think getting shot in the leg or shoulder is not big deal or "just a flesh wound" you've seen way too many tv shows. There is no safe place to get shot. There's huge blood vessels in your shoulder as well as lots of very delicate nerves and a very complex ball-and-socket joint that no surgeon on Earth can put back together once it's smashed by a bullet.

If you're shooting at all, you may as well be shooting to kill.

 

[intoTheRain]

the guy on the bus didn't have an AK because he was having a schizo breakdown and the one kid was the target of his attack. he was the alien. he wasn't just killing to kill as many people as he could like the kid in the movie theater was.

secondly, if the guy wanted an AK, he would have obtained one easily. because making them illegal does not make them impossible to obtain.

marijuana is illegal, yet anyone can get pot within 5 minutes if they care to. takes a little more effort to get a gun, but isn't very hard either.


it's not that people are arguing banning guns would be a bad thing. it'd be great IF IT WORKED. banning guns does not get the guns out of the bad guys hands, it takes guns out of the good guys hands. a lot of guns are obtained illegally to commit crimes anyway.

the only reason I think gun laws are good, are for as i said before, cutting back on spur of the moment, rage murders that wouldn't be committed if a gun was not easily available the the person had time to calm down.

it will not stop the movie theater shootings, school shootings, street shootings, mall shootings, etc. etc.


then there is the well what if kids get ahold of the gun and play around with it and kill someone accidentally. WELL, like MANY things in the home, a responsible adult should have it properly locked up and stored so that no child can access it.

i know far more children that have died in pools, been electrocuted, drank chemicals, etc. than played with a gun and shot themselves. they're all issues that all need to be dealt with responsibly. you cant ban pools, electricity, and chemicals. you don't need to ban guns either. just be responsible.

are you not Canadian Wes? the gun registration crap that has been going on for years here has been a complete farce and has accomplished nothing but pissing money down the drain.

 

[Wes]

it's not that people are arguing banning guns would be a bad thing. it'd be great IF IT WORKED. banning guns does not get the guns out of the bad guys hands, it takes guns out of the good guys hands. a lot of guns are obtained illegally to commit crimes anyway.

No offence, but that sounds like typical NRA propaganda. Kill the bad guys before they kill you. How many bad guys have you killed Rain?

it will not stop the movie theater shootings, school shootings, street shootings, mall shootings, etc. etc.

Oh wow, for the third time. IT WILL NOT STOP ALL GUN VIOLENCE BUT IT WILL HELP DECREASE GUN VIOLENCE. Even if it saves 20 lives and prevents 50 injuries in one year out of the tens of thousands who are murdered, it's still a difference. I honestly believe it will be a bigger change than that but let's just say it's only this small amount of people. That's 20 people whose families won't be ruined with the loss of a loved one, 20 families who won't mourn for them, 20 people who will get to live a full life. And 50 people who won't suffer the rest of their lives due to being shot. Still don't think it's worth it? Then YOU take a walk down to a nearby hospital and you see the effects of being shot.

are you not Canadian Wes? the gun registration crap that has been going on for years here has been a complete farce and has accomplished nothing but pissing money down the drain.

Yes, I live in Montreal. I didn't say our system was perfect, I'm merely pointing out how insane it is that people don't give a shit guns are being handed out to people with the intent of murder, all legally. Basically it sounds like there's no point in trying to prevent any violence and we should just let anyone legally buy a gun. I guess nobody cares until it happens to them.

Hey why we're at it why don't we start selling bomb at wal-mart? That way I can plant explosives around my home to protect it when I go out in case the bad guys try to break in. :roll:

 

[Longo_2_guns]

Enough petty bickering, it's time to wisecrack!


You can tell the kid wasn't a Batman fan. If he was, he'd know you're supposed to shoot people leaving the theater.

But really, you aren't going to need a bulletproof vest or anything when you see the movie. Though Rises is a pretty sad movie, so remember your tear gas.



That's it. I only got two.

 

[intoTheRain]

Even if it saves 20 lives and prevents 50 injuries in one year out of the tens of thousands who are murdered, it's still a difference.

there is the issue. i'm sorry, but no country is going to waste tens of billions of dollars (except canada), to save a handful of lives a year.


there are a million other ways money could be spent to save TONS more lives, in a much more cost efficient manner.

that is why it will never happen.

 

[Wes]

So what's your plan Rain? How are you going to help prevent gun violence? What would you have done to help prevent this massacre from going down?

What if you were the man who sold him that gun?

 

[Optimus-Crime]

So the loud music began in his apartment at 12am, and the movie begins at 12am or after.
He left his apartment door unlocked. He was hoping a neighbor would enter his apartment triggering the "bomb," giving him additional time at the cinema because of police presence and general confusion amid an apartment bombing. We've seen this movie before, he's obviously ripped a scene out of The Dark Knight, but the similarities are closer to Anders Breivik and the Norway massacre.
Anders Breivik
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

He had another gun in the car, so why didn't he carry it in with him? He had more ammo in the car, too. Why leave this stuff in the car? The bomb was supposed to be diversionary but it never went off. He was apprehended upon returning to the vehicle. He didn't resist arrest because the police wouldn't have been there had the bomb gone off, so he knew he failed.

He was going for the high score. Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of Breivik's Norway massacre.
http://www.spreekillers.ch/
His timing was impeccable. No one would've left the movie theater - especially not a midnight screening of the new Batman movie just because of a fire in someone's apartment X miles away. He figures to have killed a lot more people had the explosion triggered. The worst part is the guy's not crazy. He's just a dick. He's going to want to talk.

Everyone's who's been on the internet for, you know, 10 years knows this guy. He's a 4channer, he worships Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight - we know this guy, everyone on the internet knows someone like this guy. He's a loner, intelligent, with information at his disposal. That's practically 98% of GR's makeup. He downloaded a bomb making .png and posts on /pol/. He posted in RIP Heath Ledger [OT] on at least 20 different websites.
What I'm saying is that this guy is us. So, what is wrong with us?

Entitlements are what's wrong with us. Buying into the belief that one - and mainly oneself - is more important than others. I think the kid thought the world revolved around him. A little egomaniac. Look at me, Mr. High Score. As a generation, we're pretty pathetic.

 

[intoTheRain]

edited: because frankly you creep me the fuk out and i don't even wanna upset you, you might go round 2 on another movie theater if i push the wrong button in the fucked up head of yours

 

[GiftedMonkey]

Hey cool, a gun control topic on the internet. Who would have thought that I could find a place where some people think that getting rid of guns would keep people from shooting each other and other people think that making sure everybody has a gun will keep people from shooting each other. Americans are calling people of other nationalities idiots and people of other nationalities are calling Americans idiots.

Maybe if we're really lucky someone can throw in that Ben Franklin nugget about how people who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

 

[intoTheRain]

Hey cool, a gun control topic on the internet. Who would have thought that I could find a place where some people think that getting rid of guns would keep people from shooting each other and other people think that making sure everybody has a gun will keep people from shooting each other. Americans are calling people of other nationalities idiots and people of other nationalities are calling Americans idiots.

Maybe if we're really lucky someone can throw in that Ben Franklin nugget about how people who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

*gasp*, discussion on a discussion board

 

[Optimus-Crime]

you don't kill 12 people and wound 58 because you're a dick. you do it because you have sever psychological issues.

that was the dumbest thing I've ever read, but I would expect no less coming from you.

just because you're a weirdo loner who is obsessed with guns, a dead heath ledger and look up information on bomb making doesn't mean the rest of the GR community is.

i thought you were banned

i don't think i'm more important than anyone thank you very much. what you're defining is a sociopath, which fits you perfectly.

having a reasonable discussion and you're weird ass decides to show back up and ramble incoherently about nothing and label GR's members as sociopath freak shows.

Everything can't be blamed on psychological maladies when everyone has some sort of neurosis. Who among us is the one without some sort of mental neurosis and, if so, let me cut to the chase - delusions of grandeur. Speaking of neurosis, the guy's practically borderline genius. The timing, the purchasing of materials, the footwork involved alone pulls you out of the parameters of simply "crazy" and into the criminal mastermind category.
This entire case is a masterclass on criminal preparation.
Saying "Wow, on this night? I guess he just went crazy!" is far too careless and insensitive to the matter altogether. I can't imagine anyone would honestly believe that. I don't even think you believe that. 0/10.
Crazy isn't premeditated months in advance.



C'mon, big boy. It's time to grow up. Chop chop.


Gun control is a very sensitive issue in this country, but I'm all for a ban on assault rifles. Get that passed and so begins the trickle down, you would hope, but Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation and ranks among the top in gun violence. What's the endgame in selling gas canisters to the public?