What's your favorite scary movie?

[Sightless]

I'm not blaming film entirely, the person perpetrating such act is is obviously f***** up in the first place but sexual violence has risen and it just seems a little too coincidental.

I was kind of hoping you would reply with "oh lol, wait -- that would be kind of like blaming video games for violence!" Mostly because it is.

madster's got a point. I kind of thought that he was going to go with "women insisting on being treated equal? just smack 'em a bit, and that'll learn 'em." ...Anyway.....

You say you don't blame film entirely, yet you're so sure that it has a significant role in this alleged increase. What makes it too coincidental? I'm not entirely sure that I believe your claim to begin with, so please specify where you're talking about. I mean, if you're speaking globally, well, that's problematic. Also, risen from what? Do you think that the movies are somehow triggers for people who are predisposed to sexual aggressiveness? Someone just watches a movie and goes oh dude, sweeeeeet, and goes out and does his/her thing? I remain unconvinced.

I'm going to say that it's the movement against these kinds of films that encourages people to be rebellious and say a giant fuck you by going out and reproducing the films in reality. Does that still count?

 

[GRColin]

Just search the internet, you'll find that violence has increased towards women - Sexual violence anyways. You really think there's no correlation between the numerous films of the 70s, 80s and today that show men over powering women and raping them? Taking what they want from them, with no negative repressions in the real world? I'm not saying "this is factual. It caused the increase". I do however believe it's played a part in it. It really isn't anything like saying video games lead to violence towards women because sexual violence in games is far less realistic, gritty and detailed as in film. And I don't think someone watches a movie and decides to go out and do their thing. I think it's PART of what might lead someone to rape a woman. Like I said, the perps already have a moral compass that is slightly off. I think that if they miss the point of a movie, they may not see how there is anything wrong with it and figure "hell, it must be okay." I should come out and say I am not blaming these movies for the increase - I blame the individual. I do feel that to some degree however, it may serve as a catalyst for some people who again, may have a skewed perception of right and wrong. No matter, you think I'm completely wrong and way off base because of my stance and you believe you are right. You're perfectly entitled to that. Perhaps I phrased some of my posts before this one wrong and this one may better convey what I meant but come on...Bottom line: A little too much sexual violence towards women in film these days.

 

[madster111]

You really think there's no correlation between the numerous films of the 70s, 80s and today that show men over powering women and raping them? Taking what they want from them, with no negative repressions in the real world?
Bottom line: A little too much sexual violence towards women in film these days.

I see you need to go have a good long look at how many rapists in the real world get jail time. Only 15% are reported to police in the first place.

You genuinely have better chance of being killed in a car accident than being sent to prison on rape charges.

If anything, movies are a hell of a lot more extreme. A large amount of the rapists get caught/killed. Look at Law and Order and such. Do you know how depressing that show would be if it was realistic? In almost all of the cases (the maybe 1 case every week), the woman would have had a shower beforehand and thus the accused gets off due to lack of evidence.


Sure, i'm betting there are 'some' people who decide to get violent/rape because they saw a movie.
But there also people who read about in in books.
Then there are those who discover the Tor network and the various sites on it, gather information and realise that if they do it smart, they will get away with it. I'd be willing to bet a death sentence on my ability to get away with rape.
Verses movies who seem to show there's a 50/50 chance the boyfriend or similar will come and kill you.


I'm just saying, the statistics of 'rape' going up over the last few decades would have almost nothing to do with movies showing it more realistically. Anyone who would rape would do it no matter what movie they saw, and the rising statistics are due to completely different reasons. It's much more likely potential rapists would be scared of doing it after seeing most movies, due to the rapist getting caught in the end.

 

[GRColin]

Wait...What does prison time have to do with it.

I think it's a little naive to think mass media and entertainment does not influence people's perceptions or views.

I just am astonished that no one here seems to think that violence towards women in films may alter someone's perception of how women should be treated.

Really, we're going in circles here. Sightless and yourself will think that it's a proven fact I'm wrong, I'll think there's a correlation between the two. Unfortunately there is no way for either of us to prove what we're trying to say so we should probably just move on.

Meh. To each their own. I guess I just don't like seeing a bunch of movies with rape in them these days.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Um... so yeah....



Wow Wicked, I can't believe they're coming out with a Scream 4, it's going to suck!

Now now Liquid, you don't know that. I'm sure it'll be a fun thrill with some great throwbacks to classic horror films.

No way Wicked you're crazy! It'll suck!

STFU Liquid I am not crazy! I'm perfectly sane!

 

[Sightless]

...you'll find that violence has increased towards women.

Violence where? Because I'm pretty sure there are many places that are proud of the fact that violence against women is decreasing. The problem we have in what I assume you to identify as America or someplace similar is that I can't just ask the internet how many women got raped yesterday. I can only find out about reported offenses, and even then, does that mean it happened? You see how this is unreliable information. To be fair, this also means that I have no data to the contrary.

You really think there's no correlation between the numerous films of the 70s, 80s and today that show men over powering women [. . .] with no negative repressions in the real world?

I would say there's more damage to be done by films in the 50s and earlier, with their depiction of the roles and character of women. Those issues are often out of focus, and not necessarily appropriately addressed (not that they have to be).

I am not blaming these movies for the increase - I blame the individual.

This is precisely why films shouldn't be picked out of the pile. Related to what madster said, why do you get to decide what's a catalyst for people who are pre-disposed to violence? If some dude walks in on his parents doing some freaky bondage setup and runs off thinking it's cool to do that to anyone, are you going to strike that from the list? What about a friend who has to force-feed a cat antibiotics? That's a seriously rough struggle; are we going to remove that, too? It becomes one of these all-or-nothing situations, to me. Either you agree that films have a role in part, in which case you convict all things of having a part, or you make that a null statement and leave it.

madster111: Yeah, Law and Order episodes are based off of real cases, and unfortunately that does seem to happen quite a lot.

I just am astonished that no one here seems to think that violence towards women in films may alter someone's perception of how women should be treated.

No, I don't think that I want to claim that. If seeing that on screen doesn't make you think anything about what's going on right in front of you, then there's something wrong. I just don't identify it as the cause.

Sightless and yourself will think that it's a proven fact I'm wrong, I'll think there's a correlation between the two. Unfortunately there is no way for either of us to prove what we're trying to say so we should probably just move on.

I apologize if I come off as aggressive. I genuinely enjoy having my position questioned, so I'm just trying to tease out an argument. I think we can talk about ideas perfectly fine without appealing to hard facts (I'm an anti-realist anyway, so what are facts?).



Hi Wicked, Hi Liquid! You are both perfectly insane, and Scream 4 will have some great throwbacks to classic horror films such as.... Scream.

 

[WickedLiquid]

sightless, welcome to GR dude, you're going to fit right in.

 

[GRColin]

I just don't see the point in dragging it out any further since we're going in circles. You aren't coming off as aggressive. Mildly condescending.

Ahh to hell with it - America is one of the most violent nation's on Earth - We also have such a large obsession with T.V, movies and media. That has to count for something. And you also cite the 40s and 50s and portrayal of women int hose films, how you think that if any films would influence treatment of women, it'd be those. What makes it so those ones can influence but more modern ones can't? If anything, the portrayal of women in movies has gotten worse. They incorporate violence in sex in many different ways, sometimes subtle, where the man is dominating the woman. We think nothing of it because we're so used to it now but we're reinforcing this belief that men are the dominating factor and we are in control. It's very likely to carry over into society. Watch the Halloween series for example, a great John Carpenter film, and see how often sex and violence goes hand in hand. It's also shocking that we shy away from sex in television and pornography is taboo, but throw some violence in there and it's accepted in movies. Throw some wang or bush in there, it has to fight to not have an NC-17 rating.

The powerful CEOs are more often than not men. More police officers out there are men as opposed to women...Firefighters as well. Sure, you could argue it's harder to find a qualified woman candidate for those roles...Or some who don't want to do it....But what about promotion rates? Skinnier women get promoted and paid more than heavier women. Is it any surprise that men are the dominant ones in society when they're also portrayed that way in film, television, print and even radio?

Funny...So many magazines, movies and other media outlets portray the skinny woman as the beautiful woman. They also portray men as the powerful ones. Hmm. Art imitating life, or the other way around? How often do you see men raped and degraded in film? If you quote Deliverance I'll fucking laugh because that is a joke of a scene compared to the one in Straw Dogs, filmed around the same time, if not before.

This is just getting annoying now. Really, this can go nowhere. I'll just be checking in this topic to read up on scary movies.

Live it up boys, it's a man's world and we'll keep portraying it as such.

 

[used44]

28 Days Later, probably. Or Alien.

I dunno, I don't like most movies that fall into the "horror" genre. I'm a bigger fan of thrillers that happen to include scares.

 

[Sightless]

It's also shocking that we shy away from sex in television and pornography is taboo, but throw some violence in there and it's accepted in movies.

I don't quite agree, but I will say that sex tends to be taboo in public because we need to maintain separate spaces of public and private. And sex is just so damn private. This changes when the focus is shifted. When you add other elements such as violence, there's a different topic at hand. Sometimes it's worth throwing out there, to consider.

Skinnier women get promoted and paid more than heavier women.

I think it's awfully bold to suggest that this is a male-driven social bias. I mean, chicks also know when a chick looks good, right? Instead of ascribing to sexism, let's go with biases in general. Men get discriminated against as well, although perhaps usually in different ways.

I don't wish to argue against sexism, though, which is where this is.


28 Days Later is pretty sweet. I have great memories watching that for the first time! I don't really remember watching Alien, although I suspect it was just rented and watched at home with my dad. Thrillers over real horror films, for sure.

You know, I had never seen The Exorcist until fairly recently. The original one, I mean. I don't remember being scared at all, and that's really saying something, since very seriously pretty much everything/anything scares me... My mom suggested at one point that religious investment plays a part in the scariness of it. I feel like a bit of a dolt asking, but is that a valid explanation? I think I should watch it again. Maybe I was just high on something the first time.

 

[GRColin]

I don't quite agree, but I will say that sex tends to be taboo in public because we need to maintain separate spaces of public and private. And sex is just so damn private. This changes when the focus is shifted. When you add other elements such as violence, there's a different topic at hand. Sometimes it's worth throwing out there, to consider.

Of course you don't agree. I could say the sky is blue at this point and you'd disagree. Let's change it a bit - Sex and nudity. Remember Janet Jackson's nipple at the Superbowl? Oh lawdy how them media folks jumped all over that one. Remember Clinton got a BJ? Oh lawdy the media sure wouldn't let that go. Bush got away with a lot more. I swear, the Lewinsky thing was as big as Watergate. We shy away from nudity but accept violence.

Skinnier women get promoted and paid more than heavier women.

I think it's awfully bold to suggest that this is a male-driven social bias. I mean, chicks also know when a chick looks good, right? Instead of ascribing to sexism, let's go with biases in general. Men get discriminated against as well, although perhaps usually in different ways.

I don't wish to argue against sexism, though, which is where this is.


[/quote]

So don't argue sexism. Who do you think gives out the promotions and raises in big businesses?

28 Days Later was a pretty solid entry into the horror genre. 28 Weeks Later was surprisingly well done as well. I think for the Exorcist...I don't know what it is that makes it so scary. I'm not particularly well versed in Catholicism despite being baptized Roman Catholic and don't invest much into organized religion so whether or not I believe in demonic possession - Well...Let's just say I'd have to see it to believe it. It just creeped me out for some reason. Alien is another classic. I'd definitely have to put that on my list of favs.

 

[Sightless]

Of course you don't agree. I could say the sky is blue at this point and you'd disagree. [. . .] We shy away from nudity but accept violence.

lol Come on, this isn't that bad. I agree that we shy away from nudity but accept violence, as a general statement. When I said I don't quite agree, I meant that I don't think it's true that in the cases where we shy away, adding violence makes it acceptable. I can't think of anywhere where that's true, unless, as I said, the violence becomes the focus, rather than the sex.

So don't argue sexism. Who do you think gives out the promotions and raises in big businesses?

This has deviated from the original argument that films are a major cause of rising sexual violence against women... I don't see how sexism in general is relevant. I would never say that sexism doesn't exist, but I wouldn't say that all of this stuff is a product of men working against women, either.

 

[intoTheRain]

the only thing i'll say is you're crazy if you don't think good looking males have it easier than ugly ones..

that said, it MOSTLY comes down to if you take care of yourself in my opinion... if a fat sloppy girl comes in with messy hair and wrinkled clothes, and her clothes don't at all suit her body style, the hot girl who takes care of herself will clearly get the position if, at the very least, she can speak a coherent sentence.

if that same fat girl came in with appropriate clothing, smelled good, hair was combed, etc. i really don't think there would be a ton of discrimination..

i was in a tony roma's the other day and everyone working was good looking, except one girl. said girl was our waitress, but i immediately commented to my girlfriend that i liked her.. she had a great personality, and despite being overweight, and maybe not super wanna bang right nao hot, she took care of herself and was good at her job.. and that's how she got it..

most ugly people are ugly because they're lazy, they don't take care of themselves, and they don't know how, or care how to dress. especially when it comes to women. (with all the makeup out there today a 3 can be a 9 in 15 minutes) ALMOST anyone can be relatively attractive if they eat right, dress right, hit the gym and keep a low bodyfat, get some sun, etc. being downright ugly and fat tends to scream i'm lazy and won't be a good employee, for those reasons.

attractive people tend to be go getters, ugly ones tend to be basement dwelling stoners. it's no wonder, imo, the attractive ones will often land the job.

sorry for just basically completely changing the subject... that had just caught my eye..

as for the television increasing sexual violence towards women, i don' think television is responsible for anything negative, except obesity and a lack of social skills.

sure some shows/movies might push an already twisted individual over the edge, but said person was going to go over the edge at some point anyway. A tv program or movie does not simply change how someone thinks. I am, and always will be disgusted by sexual violence, no matter how many sexual assaults i see on television. And I think the same goes for anyone, except that guy who already fantasizes about raping women on a daily basis because girls made fun of him throughout elementary and highschool. a TV program could push him over the edge.. but that edge, like i said, was bound to be crossed sooner or later regardless.

 

[GRColin]

It might not be responsible for a direct increase in rape but it certainly influences the dominant effect men have over women and a feeling of superiority they may have.

Anyways...

 

[intoTheRain]

It might not be responsible for a direct increase in rape but it certainly influences the dominant effect men have over women and a feeling of superiority they may have.

Anyways...

I would say a show like Jersey Shore would quite possibly be a direct result of an increase in mens feelings of superiority over women, but not a GOD AWFUL movie like I Spit On Your Grave.

Jersey Shore is an embarrassment, (an embarrassment i watch and thoroughly enjoy on a weekly basis). Every week it blows my mind that women are willing to leave their dignity at home and go back to the Jersey Shore house on national television to be degraded only because they have a 0.0008% chance of receiving 15 minutes of fame out of the deal. But hey, I can't complain, if the world wasn't full of those women, I wouldn't be thoroughly entertained for 1 hour every Thursday night.

 

[MattAY]

I dont do scary films well. Thus I dont watch them a lot! I remember watching Alien when I was about 10, I had nightmares and couldnt sleep well for a week!

 

[WickedLiquid]

I saw Nightmare on Elm Street 3 when I was 5 years old. I couldn't sleep for a month! At least with Aliens they didn't kill you in your dreams!

 

[intoTheRain]

the movies that prevented me from sleeping were jurassic park, and predator, oddly enough. I wouldn't go in the woods for weeks after seeing predator.