British intellectual who draws.

[GRColin]

So....I can't think of this chaps name. He's either a sociologist or economist...Or just a smart fellow who uses art to help portray his ideas. I didn't mean to slight him in the topic title with "guy who draws". Anyone know his name? I'm trying to find a particular video clip of him discussing the education system and how it's basically an industrial complex. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: Found it! Sir Ken Robinson and the video is "Changing Education Paradigms"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

It's really worth watching for those of you interested. And it turns out he's neither a sociologist or economist but an author and international advisor on education and arts to the government.

 

[De-Ting]

I happen to agree with a lot of what he thinks. The system is broke! But one thing he fumbles around with in a manner I don't think is suiting is his outlook on ADHD.

My step brother has ADHD. Medicating him does not limit his ability to think or be creative, it helps control it. See, he doesn't seem to understand that it is, in fact, a mental disorder. Nobody likes it, but that doesn't mean it's a myth. Parents give their kids medication for it for the same reasons they give them any other medicine. It is expected to help. They don't cram pills down their throats as he suggests, but kids don't enjoy taking any kind of medicine, and this is no different. Another thing is why he thinks they do it. It isn't necessarily their fear that their kids are different, but most likely because of their fear of what their kids will do without being properly medicated. With my experience, a lack of attention, coupled with a manic state of mind, far more
often than not, leads to more serious injuries, social issues, and mental degradation than it leads to anything productive or beneficial.

I don't claim to know everything about everyone with the disorder, but these points are evident and obvious to me. I also haven't said its victims should be shunned, but treated just as anyone else with a disorder. However, each person is an individual, and whatever the person's outlook on their problems are can and will be determental to how others view them, the same as everyone else. The world doesn't owe you anything.

 

[Bretimus_v2]

He needs to add in a portion talking about how we as adults value education for our children on a strictly dollar level. The one thing that I'm amazed at, is how much parents complain about lowering funds for kids but then they don't donate to the local school, supply their children with proper supplies, or support tax increases that would fund education programs.

 

[GRColin]

De-Ting, what I took from it was almost an over medication and diagnosis regarding ADD. I remember in high school they said I had ADD and put me on medication - When I was on it however I did feel more focused - on a single subject. I didn't find myself as full of great ideas when I would write short stories or research papers in my society class. I stopped taking the medication pretty quickly and just for the hell of it had myself retested this year and my Dr wouldn't even move me past the preliminary screening test for ADD as I had no signs of it. I don't know much about it, but I would suspect that mental conditions such as that don't go away? Now I'm not saying medication stifles creativity for anyone who has ADHD. I'm sure it does work for your brother because he actually has it. I just feel that it gets thrown around a lot. Kind of like how many people claim they're "mildly dyslexic" or "a quarter native". I am glad you agree with the majority of it though and again, I'm thinking solely on the over prescribing and diagnosing of ADD/ADHD, not those who actually have ADHD...Which...ADHD seems like a different, more serious condition than ADD to me.

 

[DocMoc]

This video is a staple in my education classes. I think each of my profs have shown me this. I really liked it the first time.

 

[De-Ting]

ADD is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. I feel sorry for your situation, Lethean, as it seems you really didn't need the medication, and whatever doctor diagnosed you with it obviously was too full of himself to keep in mind that everyone gets distracted sometimes.

ADD is an extreme form of distraction. So the guy in the video is right concerning how it is often labeled onto kids who are undeserving of it and really don't need medication.

 

[electricthunder]

I was diagnosed with ADD years ago, but I'd say that I actually do have it because when I don't take my medicine I get districted pretty damn easily, plus I'm hyper.
but, yes, some people are diagnosed with it and they don't really have it. (of course that's already been said, but I'm agreeing that they need to diagnose it less if possible)

 

[FrozenBacon]

While this dude does make good points, I'd say there have already been changes made to the education system that mirror what he is trying to say. The problem is that children are too young to know what is best for them and often go for classes that their friends are taking, or whatever their parents want.

In high school I was able to choose the classes I wanted to take, but I really didn't know wtf I wanted to do (I did want to fly airplanes but that was a teenage lust more than anything) so I just picked whatever seemed smart to impress people. By the time I was a senior I had a full plate of AP classes and got mediocre grades because I didn't give a shit. I got excellent grades in the classes I was somewhat interested in (physics, math, any computer class). Classes I didn't care much about (english, biology, history) I got mediocre to low grades in.

Based on my grades alone it was obvious I had the aptitude and interest to be some sort of engineer. What did I eventually go to college for? Computer engineering. Going by my grades, my school could've maybe suggested engineering classes to give me a bit more direction in life and I wouldn't have wasted a few years trying to figure out if computer engineering was what I really wanted.

But that was just my school, there are guidance counselors in place to provide these services for the children. Not everyone takes advantage of it, or have parents that would allow their children the freedom they need. Overall, I think we are going the right way when it comes to education, it is just that you can never have perfect results.

As for the whole ADD thing... I don't think that is much of an issue. It is just one of those bullshit ethical issues that don't really matter at the end of the day. The side effect of these drugs is that the child may actually pay attention and learn something. Oh no!

 

[Sightless]

I automatically thought that I would disagree a lot with what he says, because that's what I do. I didn't, but he also didn't say anything that's very new.

The only thing I want to comment about is at the very end, where he says that "collaboration is the stuff of growth," and that "most great learning happens in groups." Note that earlier, he mentioned people who work better in groups, and some who work better alone. Two things need to be clarified here: first, that this is a blanket statement that isn't necessarily true of each individual; and second (and more importantly), that there is certainly a valuable kind of growth and learning to be had by being alone and explicitly not being part of a group. I like to think that this is true of everyone. In any case, I think I do know what he means, because he's talking about judging the individual and placing the emphasis on some kind of concrete value, which goes back to standardized testing and all that fun stuff.

Anyway, I made the age-old mistake of peeking at comments on YouTube... bleh. What a nightmare.

...adults value education for our children on a strictly dollar level.

Do you mean that adults equate quality of education with the number of dollars invested? Or is it just about how they treat the situation?
It's unrealistic, but also a valid expectation that there should just be adequate funding for schools. I mean, what's the point of public education if you end up paying for it all anyway? And just as my observation, I don't really come across too many adults that willingly don't help with fundraising/donations, or especially with giving their children the supplies they need. Usually that happens out of sheer lack of money.

...I wouldn't have wasted a few years trying to figure out if computer engineering was what I really wanted.

Yikes. I'm genuinely sorry that you feel that way.

 

[keepithowitis]

When I read the name of this topic, I thought it was about mattay...

 

[Bretimus_v2]

More treating the situation. My wife taught in a fairly affluent school district and you would be surprised by the lengths some people would go not to help. Or how little trickled down to her to help fund engaging activities and projects in class.

 

[Sightless]

Yeah. The money's gotta come from somewhere, and it ain't gonna be from them. I guess it's also a sense of hey, do your job and just make my kid educated? I dunno.

Parents of students can be horrendous, and I feel bad for anyone out there who has to deal with them (I say, without meaning to offend anyone here). Specifically, I feel bad for the TAs/student teachers, since there's kind of a lot less that they can do or say in their position.