Sexuality

[keepithowitis]

Why is it that gays/lesbians are not allowed to marry? Who made up that rule in the first place? To me, it's up there with some of the stupidest laws ever made, if not the stupidest one. There are commercials about Proposition 8, the one that will legalize gay marriage, that go against the proposal. The one I watched was of a girl coming home from school with a book called 'The Prince and The Prince' or something, and the mother getting extremely angry/worried. People who actually go against gay marriage are the worst kind of people. Sure, there's the ones like Jefree Starr, Chris Crocker, or Perez Hilton, the really weird and openly gay people. But then there's everyone else. Like, for example, FTG. Say Stal and his chica left each other. FTG made a move on Stal, and with him being in such a state of depression, they hooked up. After months of tasting California Chardonnay, long walks on the beach, watching sunsets, going to movies, going shopping, and whatever else they might be up to (scissoring?), Stal might want to propose. 'Oh wait.. You don't live in California or Massachusetts. Sorry about that,' says the government. 'Yeah, and also, you guys aren't allowed to show any affection to each other at a public setting, i.e. sports game, restaurant, movie. It sets a bad example for our children.'

Wait a minute. Bad example??? Dads go looking at porn and leave the sites open for children to see. Kids are getting opened up to things like GTA, bad music, etc. that glamorize prostitution, drug dealing, and unlawful gun use, among other things. Any famous celebrity that could be a role model for kids anywhere is dressing too scantily, taking too many drugs, or doing something stupid that gets them killed. And you're telling me that Stal and FTG can't touch each in the back of a movie theater, much less get married??? What kind of country is this? Why is the whole world afraid of gays? I read an article in the Seattle Times a few months ago, talking about two lesbians that were thrown out of a Seattle Mariners game because they kissed in front of a mother and her child. The mother called security to 'protect' her daughter, and the lesbians were escorted out of the game immediately. That's just one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Why does this happen? Why are gays so 'scary' in the eyes of the straight world?

To finish things off, Stal and FTG, I only used you two as an example because I can't find a better gay couple here on the forums.

And finally.. Sorry for the long post.

Discuss everything.

 

[Longo_2_guns]

Yes. Very yes. That is all.

Also, Stal and FTG would be such a cute couple. I've got a good feeling that they are already together and are just hiding it from everyone.

 

[Rakon]

Refer to my post in the race thread.

Don't discriminate. If it doesn't affect you, leave it alone. You don't want to have a gay marriage, then don't. But don't stop two loving people who do.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Damnit, my cover is blown!
Stal and I have been following an elaborate plan to kill his Abby so that our love can blossom in full.

It's strange, keepit. You were once, I thought, one of the most annoying posters here, and now you've become one of my faves. And it was really an overnight transformation. Weird.

Well, of course, I agree with the sentiments. I, perhaps naively, completely blame the problem on religion.
The thing is that I don't want a marriage. I just want the rights. Marriage is pretty much a religious union, and I want no part of religion. It's done the world so much wrong. However, things like Proposition 8 and the situation at that Mariners game are pure examples of discrimination. How people do not see this astounds me.
This systematic invalidation of homosexual love and rights is precisely like when black people were considered invalid human beings.

 

[mattimeo48]

I tend to follow the line both the candidates seem to be following, aka I believe in gay rights rather than gay marriage. Who marries whom isn't a legal issue as much as it is a social one. So long as any two adult citizens can receive the same legal rights as any other legally bound couple, we're golden. No religious institution should be legally required to marry anyone, however -- gay, straight, or otherwise.

I do believe gay couples should be allowed to be publicly married. Having a bit of a religious background makes me wary of any legislation that would require a church to marry people against their beliefs. Pastors should have the right to not marry a couple for any reason at all.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

Pastors should have the right to not marry a couple for any reason at all.

Just curious. I'm sure you'd agree that store owners shouldn't have the right to choose their patronage. It would be 1960's segregation all over again.
But what is the fundamental difference in the case of the store owners and in the case of the pastors?

 

[Tylzen]

I can't really be in this topic, since gay marriage is allowed here.
We had three god parents for Marius when he was baptized, and two of them was a lesbian couple.
Nothing wrong with that.

Lesbians are even helped by the state with getting pregnant.

 

[GRColin]

Gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to marry in a church belonging to a religion that allows it, they should be allowed to marry in city hall. They should not be allowed to be married in a Mosque, Catholic church or in a church of any religion that does not support/alllow gay marriages.

"Open minded conversation" about gay and racial issues is so high school social studies class.

 

[UrbanMasque]

Stal is gay?

 

[bloodiedmirror]

But what is the fundamental difference in the case of the store owners and in the case of the pastors?

Basically that pastors aren't performing a service that everyone requires or needs. I myself don't have the most favorable view of religion, just wasn't for me. I don't think there should be a law outlawing gay marriage, that's discriminatory. But we also should not have a law saying churches have to marry a gay couple, that goes against the separation of church and state. A line that has been severely blurred recently and anything to make it more solid again I view as a positive. Maybe because of where I live I know of churches that are friendly to gay patronage and will perform same sex ceremonies. Really why would you want to belong to a church that only accepts you because they're forced to? Should there be laws protecting gay couples, of course. Same benefits and protections afforded to heterosexual couples. Keep church and state separate, don't pass backwards discriminatory laws, and educate and influence so that de jure becomes de facto.

 

[used44]

Stal is sooooo gay.

Speaking of that, based on the title, I thought this topic was going to be about the sexuality of the posters on the forum, which I had some questions I wanted to ask you homosexual and bisexual people, but I'll save them for another time as to not hijack this topic.

On topic, I believe that any body should have the opportunity and the right to do the same things as anyone else, and that certainly includes gay couples. one little hiccup with that though is defining the term "same sex couple." We had an issue here in Alaska where a handful of male roommates, one of which who worked for the State, were applying for and accepting their "partner's" federal employee benefits. These people were not man and wife (or man and man) they were just a "family household" so they were taking advantage of the system. Same-sex marriage needs to be legalized and federally recognized so that situations like that can't happen.

And what's with politicians (the two main candidates for the Presidency, for example) talking about "preserving the sanctity/tradition of a male/female marriage." What religious mumbo-jumbo. Marriage is only a holy thing if you follow the restrictive dogmas of one of those freak religions that don't allow you to get divorced for fear of being kicked out of Heaven. Speaking of divorce, with the rates as high as they are, there doesn't seem to be much "sanctity" left for the saving.

Good topic.

 

[De-Ting]

I say we all go gay and find someone who will marry us all to Stal. Then, move to California.

Gay polygamy ftw

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

But what is the fundamental difference in the case of the store owners and in the case of the pastors?

But we also should not have a law saying churches have to marry a gay couple, that goes against the separation of church and state.

Correct answer. Thank you. How could I forget this separation? Is it because the two have become so integrated lately?
Seriously, religion has a huge stake in our government. I was going to make a topic about this, but I felt that GR had met its new topic quota for the day. Here, there is a senator Elizabeth Dole who is actively attacking her opponent Kay Hagan as a godless atheist (which is probably not true at all, still...). I actually just saw an ad of Dole's on TV. It's insane how trashy these campaigns have gotten.
But my point was to be that what exactly is the wrong with having an atheist senator? With all of the attacks on Obama being a Muslim, it makes me wonder what exactly would be wrong with having a Muslim President?
On paper and as the founders intended, the US government is a non-partisan republic, but it has effectively turned into a theocracy. The President is not only a political leader, but people must trust that his decisions are godly (well, at least according to what they think their god would do).

Also, I'm curious about these questions, Used...

 

[mattimeo48]

^ What bloodiedmirror said. I've been trying to write that down coherently for the past 15 minutes, haha.

Mandating that churches marry anyone and everyone who comes knocking only exacerbates a problem legalizing gay rights will inevitably cause. Just like with the civil rights movement, there will be people who will just never come around. Look at the oldest living generation for proof of that. My grandparents on my mom's side still say the worst things about anyone who isn't white on occasion (which makes this presidential race so entertaining...they religiously vote Democrat straight ticket, yet their candidate is a "terrorist Muslim".)

Back to the point...once the U.S. legalizes gay rights, it'll take at least a generation or two before the majority of people are tolerant of it. Pissing off the religious establishment would only push potential allies away.

 

[used44]

But my point was to be that what exactly is the wrong with having an atheist senator? With all of the attacks on Obama being a Muslim, it makes me wonder what exactly would be wrong with having a Muslim President?
On paper and as the founders intended, the US government is a non-partisan republic, but it has effectively turned into a theocracy. The President is not only a political leader, but people must trust that his decisions are godly (well, at least according to what they think their god would do).

Fore real. Nixon was a goddamn Quaker after all.

Also, I'm curious about these questions, Used...

Maybe I'll make another topic, but they might be stupid questions and I'll probably just get scoffed at.

 

[bloodiedmirror]

Here, there is a senator Elizabeth Dole who is actively attacking her opponent Kay Hagan as a godless atheist (which is probably not true at all, still...).

I saw that, and actually Kay Hagan is an Elder at her church and a Sunday school teacher, if that's godless then I'm more religious than I thought.

The idea that holiness equals morality always bugs me. That people would think that because someone doesn't have faith (in their respective religion as you mentioned) then they can't be trusted to be a decent human. How true, seeing as how religion has never lead people down the wrong path. The Crusades were all about sunshine and puppies, right?

So many people assume I'm some christian rocker type because despite my plugs and tattoos I'm so polite and nice. Bugs me that the christian part is always in there.

 

[Chris_Crime]

We had an issue here in Alaska where a handful of male roommates, one of which who worked for the State, were applying for and accepting their "partner's" federal employee benefits.
These people were not man and wife (or man and man) they were just a "family household" so they were taking advantage of the system.

This is the problem. I'm more scared of this than that.

 

[madster111]

So..wait.
i can understand retards not liking gay guys..

But who in the living fuck would NOT want lesbians?

Who here on GR doesn't like to watch lesbians?
anyone?

 

[MikeyVassallo]

So a topic about whoring and a topic about sexuality? Keep, why don't you and your mother's hand lotion take a nice 15min break. Bathroom's over there.

 

[LinksOcarina]

It's so damn touchy because of our roots though, puritanical peoples who fled persecution (something a lot of people forget.) and wound up here. Religion has always been a part of the Americana, in a way, be it fundamental extremism of the KKK or the great, peaceful civil rights movement of Dr. King. It will be hard to shake it off and because of that, a lot of things get lost in the translation of the book to the people.

So, being gay is one of those taboo things that you can't discuss to anyone. You can't show affection in public (unless your in Manhattan or San Fransisco, honestly I see billboards all over the streets here, especially the village, that promote same sex relationships.) nor can you care for the person you decided to partner with. It's such a bullshit thing, because of an institution that is blocking this is hindering other couples too.

What about people who live together but decide to not get married? They are all straight, but they can't have the same rights as a person who is married. No health benefits, no insurance claims, no rights of visitation when your sick or dying. Civil unions give us all of that, but they too are imperfect. Saying your partnered with someone still causes winces from people, who will badger you to marry or just condone you period.

The only way to move forward is to separate church and state, honestly. And if that doesn't work, I want to see the LGBT communities all across the U.S to rally and protest if the Proposition 8 is passed. Starting a new civil rights movement might give it some ground, and hell, were heading in that direction anyway. Once New York passes a same-sex marriage law (and they will, its been on the table for a while now.) all bets are off.