Why can't we riot like the Brits?

[Grey]

I'm not sure at the moment but while I was at university my tuition was paid for me and I got a couple of grand a year in student loans. It depended on the person but most owed around £5000 a year.

Your fees there are a good example of the variables. Different courses, locations, nationality of the student can all have an affect on the fees. For example, I studied Graphic Design, a speciliased area in art schools, but low fees for the course itself. £1000 a year, but then adding in materials, the ludicrously high bill I ran up at the printers each year and the cost of a decent laptop, with software licenses (and then regular typography license updates every few months) and accommodation, it evened out to almost £4,500 a year.

If you're from outside of the UK and wish to study here, University fees triple. This has resulted in many establishments giving preference to international students because they can charge the higher fee, which has resulted in a backlash against favouritism to international students for places at Universities, sparking yet more xenophobia.

Now onto the rioting, at the heart of why UK students are angered over University fees is essentially, the people putting into place and enforcing these fees. They had grants, not loans, they did not pay fees for University. Going back fifty (sixty?) years, in the UK students were given a grant, although places at University were limited and only given to those considered to have earned the place with near perfect exam results. There has been a steady decline over the years regarding student benefits since then to the point of where we are now, where the only benefit is.... a 10% discount at a few high street shops. Do I think the riots where justified? No, there are much better ways of addressing the issue of top up fees. Do I see why these people are angry? Yes. I'm not happy about the loan repayments I have looming over my head, but hopefully I should have it paid off soon.

Blackstar, I know I've seen you be serious at least once before, and how dare you visit the UK at six years old and not visit me to play Power Rangers or something.

 

[maca2kx]

I feel that a better form of protest than riots are action. What if thousands of students banded together and refused to pay off their loans, because they were just too darned high? Obviously, this plan needs a little adjusting, but my point is that action is always better than inaction. However rioting isn't necessarily the right action.

Then every single one of those students would be sued.

This is the UK you're talking about, the least free country in the world.

Do you think when you type or just go on auto-bullshit mode? The UK is by no means free (as in there are repercussions for certain actions. You know, like murder) but do you really think the people of Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, Somalia are more free than those of the UK? Plus the UK hardly has a litigious culture, it is admittedly moving that way but it falls far short of the McDonalds hot coffee suit, the prohibitively costly copyright lawsuits and that one guy who thought drinking Bud would get him wrestling girls covered in oil

Madster, aren't you from Australia? I was pretty sure you were. But you're from the UK?

Hell no.

If i was, i'd have already moved to another country. Under 25s can't even drive anything bigger than a 1.6L over there unless they feel like paying 3-10x their cars value a year for insurance. Petrol prices are stupidly high, the government control absolutely everything and taxes are ridiculous. That's before i get to the weather, the city layouts, the laws and the cost of living.

I live in Australia, where i hate our government. It's s*** and filled with 80 year old twatbags with no idea about anything, but at least we can drive a f****** car without selling a kidney or don't have to pay TV stations to own a TV in your house.

Again, I'd appreciate it if you kept quiet about things you clearly have no idea about. I have just turned 25 (not in time for my latest insurance payment) and have been driving for a couple of years, almost all of my friends have been driving since they were 19/20 and none of us (aside from the crash-happy) pay anywhere near 3 times the value of our cars. My insurance is well below the value of my current car which is a 1.9 turbo, the same can be said for another guy whose car is a 1.9 petrol. While the cost of living is admittedly not cheap I could live quite comfortably in a flat-share if I could guarantee full-time hours on a minimum wage job. Minimum wage is not high yet I could easily support myself on 40 hours a week. I am wondering what you're getting at with your complaints about the city layouts, laws and your somewhat Orwellian assumption that the government controls everything but since you haven't provided anything to dispute I'm not going to bother.

For a teen Australian you sure know a lot about Britain...

Stayed there for a week earlier this year.

Oh I'm sorry, spending a week in a country qualifies you to pontificate all about it.

 

[Grey]

You can smoke indoors in Cuba. Fucking fantasy land I tell you!

 

[AoT]

I don't understand why everyone whines so damn much about some broken windows and a few injured cops when we're talking about the rest of people's lives here. If you get screwed with your tuition costs you're going to be feeling that for a long time.

As for all of you complaining about them not using non-violent means. What exactly would you suggest they do to prevent this from happening. A whole bunch of people showing up and begging the government not to raise fees obviously isn't going to do anything.

P.S. Mentioning Britain and litigious cultures and not even mentioning the absolutely horrid libel laws they have is absolutely absurd. The worst, by far, libel laws in Europe.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

P.S. Mentioning Britain and litigious cultures and not even mentioning the absolutely horrid libel laws they have is absolutely absurd. The worst, by far, libel laws in Europe.

Anyone watch Have I got News for You? or is it just me.


I feel for Ian Hislop.

 

[madster111]

Your insurance rates are simply not comparable to mine, Maca.

Mainly because i'm currently insured for my car for less than it's possible for a 17 year old to insure a Golf Diesel in your country.
My car is a 3.5L V6 family sedan able to accelerate to 60mph (0-100km/h) half a second quicker than a Golf GTI. My insurance plan includes $2,500 worth of items in the event of total destruction (covering my laptop and such), and 2x windshield replacements.


A minimum wage job in Australia, working 40 hours a week will get you a rental house, having a room mate makes it more comfortable in terms of bills but isn't needed to afford the rent and utilities.

You don't understand how high your cost of living is.

 

[Icepick]

I'm not exactly sure why we're comparing 0-60 times for our cars but whatever

I'm running a 5.0 L v8 Mustang GT, of course I had to go with midnight black, I'm paying $417 a month just to keep i on the fucking road, the kicker, they're only giving it a bluebook value of 2500... i just had a new transmission put in worth more than that. Whatever you fucking kids got on taxes, insurance, and what have you, Canada has you beat, being a quiet country that tends to yourself is apparently pretty fucking costly

 

[maca2kx]

Madster, I'm not going to defend Britain against all your accusations. I think we all know it has fell from grace in recent years. The thing is though, you're Australian, you're living in Australia and you spent one week here. So yeah, while you may have an idea about some things you couldn't talk about the village I live in or even the areas 50 miles away from wherever you visited. You're acting like an aggrieved adolescent complaining about the end state of things with no acknowledgement of any reason for it. In short talk about Australia all you want but stop making generalised statements about a country you've never really lived in.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

Reso! More anarchy in the UK, lads are out of control, almost got shot attacking the royal pinhead of wales. And taking down someone's holy tree? Come now. :?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -shot.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ndals.html

 

[madster111]

Ahahah, nearly shot?

No they weren't. UK cops arent allowed to shoot actual guns, it's against their health and safety department. Plus, bullets are too expensive.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

It was the royal guard, not the cops.

 

[maca2kx]

Ahahah, nearly shot?

No they weren't. UK cops arent allowed to shoot actual guns, it's against their health and safety department. Plus, bullets are too expensive.

Try again

 

[WickedLiquid]

Madster, just stop. LOL

 

[MattAY]

To be fair to maddy, I'm pretty sure were the only country in Europe who regularly patrol without guns, and just blunts.

I like it that way though, I think it's so British to see a policeman chatting to an old lady on a cobblestoned street. If policemen had guns that wouldn't happen! Too impersonal and scary.

 

[Grey]

To be fair to maddy, I'm pretty sure were the only country in Europe who regularly patrol without guns, and just blunts.

I like it that way though, I think it's so British to see a policeman chatting to an old lady on a cobblestoned street. If policemen had guns that wouldn't happen! Too impersonal and scary.

Nope, armed police make regular patrols.

 

[Longo_2_guns]

But for every armed patrol, there are a dozen plainclothes/unarmed officers walking the streets.

That's one thing I loved about England. I never felt too scared, except when I broke the law myself.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

But for every armed patrol, there are a dozen plainclothes/unarmed officers walking the streets.

That's one thing I loved about England. I never felt too scared, except when I broke the law myself.

I thought you gave up drug smuggling. Mattay needs his fix though... OF YOU!

 

[madster111]

To be fair to maddy, I'm pretty sure were the only country in Europe who regularly patrol without guns, and just blunts.

I like it that way though, I think it's so British to see a policeman chatting to an old lady on a cobblestoned street. If policemen had guns that wouldn't happen! Too impersonal and scary.

The only reason you guys get away with that is because no one else over there has guns either. Or knives.
If a cop from the UK walked through Sydney on a saturday night without a gun, he would be a crying mess by morning. The ONLY reason cops are respected down here is because, if they feel like it, they can shoot you in the foot a couple times for calling them names.
Too drunk to comply to their commands?
They simply tase you a bunch of times. On the news just now, the sydney police tased a drunk guy who wouldn't respond 3 times.
The courts ruled in the cops favor, and fined the guy $3,000.
You simply do not fuck with our police officers.


Also, didn't your army stop using real bullets when not overseas because they're too expensive? And now you guys are rocking laser systems?
Don't get me wrong, it makes sense. Good quality tracers are bloody expensive.

When i was over there, about 90% of the cops i saw were unarmed. That freaked me out, because if there's an armed person shooting people down somewhere, how is your police force going to take them out?
Getting close enough to taser would make you an easy target, and waiting the extra 5-10 minutes for someone with a weapon to take him down could be difference between 5 or 50 people getting killed.
How does it work for you guys?

 

[MattAY]

To be fair to maddy, I'm pretty sure were the only country in Europe who regularly patrol without guns, and just blunts.

I like it that way though, I think it's so British to see a policeman chatting to an old lady on a cobblestoned street. If policemen had guns that wouldn't happen! Too impersonal and scary.

Nope, armed police make regular patrols.

They do? Where? I've never seen a gun on a copper.

 

[maca2kx]

To be fair to maddy, I'm pretty sure were the only country in Europe who regularly patrol without guns, and just blunts.

I like it that way though, I think it's so British to see a policeman chatting to an old lady on a cobblestoned street. If policemen had guns that wouldn't happen! Too impersonal and scary.

The only reason you guys get away with that is because no one else over there has guns either. Or knives.

You think we don't have knives here? Hell, if you type 'knife crime' into Google the fifth predicted result is 'knife crime uk'. Knife crime is one of the major concerns in schools and amongst youths today and it is rare that a week goes by without a widely publicised story about some ASBO chav stabbing someone who looked near his general direction. It sucks but it is a major plus that gun crime is nowhere near the ridiculous levels of some other countries.

If a cop from the UK walked through Sydney on a saturday night without a gun, he would be a crying mess by morning.

Coming from a guy who has never walked down the rougher streets of any major city in the UK. I wouldn't go so far as to say the UK is teeming with Ice Men (it's a long video but watch it, it's worth it) because, you know, I'm not full of shit, but just like any other varied and diverse country we have exceedingly lovely people and exceedingly nasty people, and everything in between.

The ONLY reason cops are respected down here is because, if they feel like it, they can shoot you in the foot a couple times for calling them names.

Then they're doing it wrong.

Too drunk to comply to their commands?
They simply tase you a bunch of times. On the news just now, the sydney police tased a drunk guy who wouldn't respond 3 times.
The courts ruled in the cops favor, and fined the guy $3,000.
You simply do not f*** with our police officers.

There's justice and there's police state. Not responding to a specific request given by the police is wrong and the guy should have been apprehended and placed under arrest until he sobered up but tasing him to do so? Way too heavy handed. Then again I'm sure there's a reason that case reached the news instead of the hundreds and hundreds of other incidents involving the police dealing with drunkards recently.

Also, didn't your army stop using real bullets when not overseas because they're too expensive? And now you guys are rocking laser systems?
Don't get me wrong, it makes sense. Good quality tracers are bloody expensive.

The only article I could find after a brief Google search was this one which says that live rounds were dropped for training exercises. Then again we have this and this which are more recent and discuss use of better rounds.

When i was over there, about 90% of the cops i saw were unarmed. That freaked me out, because if there's an armed person shooting people down somewhere, how is your police force going to take them out?
Getting close enough to taser would make you an easy target, and waiting the extra 5-10 minutes for someone with a weapon to take him down could be difference between 5 or 50 people getting killed.
How does it work for you guys?

Admittedly all fair points. But consider that gun crime represented 0.5% of all crime in the UK during 2007-2008.

MattAY - armed police are mainly found in London. Whenever I go down there I often see them patrolling the buildings you'd expect to be targets. I'm assuming you'd find armed police in rougher areas in any major city too.