Why can't we riot like the Brits?

[Grey]

Rioting accomplishes hilarious news stories leading to everbody getting their knickers in a twist while trying to rationalize the actions of a large body blowing off some steam.

 

[UrbanMasque]

Rosa Parks didn't set the bus on fire. Just so you know...

Yea, I know - Malcolm X did.

I'm Canadian, not American,

That explains a lot, and I'm going to use this as a justification to stop debating this point with you.

Have your silly non violent protest over saturated with STUPID causes:
Save the planet Demonstration, Women’s rights Demonstration, Canadian Auto Workers Demonstration, Anti-Harper Protests Demonstration, Samba Squad Demonstration of Music, Free Ethiopia Demonstration. These are just a drop in the bucket to the groups present at G20 - how many different petitions can a person fill out in a day before the protest becomes diluted and non substantive.

Go ahead and march, let the government tell you where, when, and how to march - and corral you into insignificance. :roll:

Do me a favor - stop calling it rioting, and stop calling all violent protesters Anarchists.
Deprogram you thought process.

 

[Rakon]

How much is tuition in England? Like Eyebrows said, it's extremely expensive in the States, and Ontario has the highest of any province (anywhere between 4K-9K, depending on your school/program). I think our numbers are criminal, and OSAP (the government-run loan system) robs students.

 

[UrbanMasque]

tuition hikes, just like salaries and taxes are all relative - based on industry, specialization, and location.

You cant justify not protesting by saying, "well they have nothing to be angry about - wait till their tuition gets to our level then they can complain" - no.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Urban, without order there is chaos. I don't understand exactly what you want. You want Buckingham Palace to burn down to the ground or something? lol

When people take the law into their own hands, things get out of control.

People fight for the rights, I understand that. I'm not just some slave to the government as you would believe simply because I don't wish to become violent. It's called being civil, it's saying 'I'm better than the goverment because I don't resort to sinking to their level."

You say this is going to send a message but it won't. Because the minute the protest turns violent they give up the right to protest.. It's as simple as that. I guess only time will tell.

 

[UrbanMasque]

Yep, I want the white house and buckingham palace to burn to the ground. i want to live in a caliphate and revert back to the barter system.. Yep that's exactly what I'm saying. Pull your head out of the sand for a second.


Democracy and Capitalism are the best systems we have for human progress. peaceful progress and indiscriminate progress - under the assumption that if you work hard, you will reap the rewards of your labors. Both of these systems have flaws - flaws that benefit only a select few. I'm not saying that I would like for it to be this way, but if you look at history, the only way to bring about cultural change is thru violent acts of protest - and by violent I mean hitting "the man" on what he values most - his wallet.

You can look at how skewed/gamed a system has become by looking at recent events in the American judicial system. A cop gets 6 months for killing a kid in Oakland, and an actor gets 3 years for tax evasion. A system with obvious flaws.

Fact. Non violent protest ALONE is ineffective.
Stop bunching all "violent" protesters into the lawless teenage anarchist angst categories.

 

[Icepick]

still, when kids respond like that to an increase in tuition - you better believe they will think twice before trying to impose something similar again.

LOL, was that a joke?

You can't just start a f****** riot when you're unhappy about your government. Ever heard of two wrongs don't make a right? Yeah, I'm pissed off at the government so I'm gonna smash up a store where kids like me work and now they won't be able to go to work and won't get paid... YEAH! THAT'LL SHOW EM! :roll:

If anything, violence justifies increased police presence and the only ones who pay are the tax-payers.

\

Cause and effect, was the riot outlandish? absolutely, was it disgusting, demoralizing, and sickening to watch? clearly, does everyone affected now feel as shitty as those hopeful students do? Hopefully. I'm sorry, but when you pull such an asshat move, that is literally a kick in their face, to a group who are hormonally challenged at that age, expect an outburst.

While it's not the best course of action, it's only equal in magnitude to the action that caused the riots in the first place.

 

[MattAY]

I see Icepick's point. The aim of a riot is to upset, and they've achieved that. It is certainly immoral, but they dont care.
Their futures have been dashed majorly without a choice in the matter, so it's understandable.

 

[UrbanMasque]

I see Icepick's point. The aim of a riot is to upset, and they've achieved that. It is certainly immoral, but they dont care.
Their futures have been dashed majorly without a choice in the matter, so it's understandable.

I would take it a step further and say that they probably wanted to bring more attention to the topic. Student protests tend to be marginalized in the news.

 

[maca2kx]

And the term Rioting is so callous. Riots are disorganized and usually not backed by an agenda. Protests are very deliberate and purposeful.

Actually no, a riot is:

Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot.

What are the costs at? A cheap local college (excluding community college) can run about 10k a year without scholarships or anything, and that's as low as it gets usually.

I'm not sure at the moment but while I was at university my tuition was paid for me and I got a couple of grand a year in student loans. It depended on the person but most owed around £5000 a year.

 

[UrbanMasque]

You say potato...


A riot is a form of civil disorder characterized often by disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence against authority, property or people. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are typically chaotic and exhibit herd behavior, and usually generated by civil unrest -wikipedia

...I say it all depends on where you get your definition.

 

[BlackStar]

Brits don't know how lucky they have it. Their cops don't even carry guns...

Not been over here have you? I can't walk outside without seeing the old bill caressing a rifle.

When have I ever been serious? But seriously, when?

Actually I have been to London..... when I was 6...

Seriously for real now, the only thing I hate about protesters is they cause a shit load of property damage and then cry about their nazi police state when the police take them down. WTF did you think was gonna happen god damn hippie?

I get it, it's fun to destroy stuff. I used to do that stuff to when I was 15 and justified it by saying I was fighting the power. But then eventually you grow the fuck up and realize you're part of the problem. It's like a 5 yr old who has a meltdown infront of his mom at the grocery store because he wants a chocolate bar near the registers. But he doesn't get what he wants so he gets louder and angrier until she gives in. He got what he wanted but he did it by pissing off everyone else in the store who had to tolerate his outburst. Kinda pathetic and even selfish.

That being said, the English kids were protesting for what they believed in and all the power to them. But then a bunch of cool guys come along and destroy shit and now instead of "kids protest tuition hikes" it's "kids vandalize and riot."

 

[MattAY]

A riot is...

"to fuck shit up"

 

[Rakon]

I feel that a better form of protest than riots are action. What if thousands of students banded together and refused to pay off their loans, because they were just too darned high? Obviously, this plan needs a little adjusting, but my point is that action is always better than inaction. However rioting isn't necessarily the right action.

 

[madster111]

I feel that a better form of protest than riots are action. What if thousands of students banded together and refused to pay off their loans, because they were just too darned high? Obviously, this plan needs a little adjusting, but my point is that action is always better than inaction. However rioting isn't necessarily the right action.

Then every single one of those students would be sued.

This is the UK you're talking about, the least free country in the world.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Madster, aren't you from Australia? I was pretty sure you were. But you're from the UK?

You say potato...


A riot is a form of civil disorder characterized often by disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence against authority, property or people. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are typically chaotic and exhibit herd behavior, and usually generated by civil unrest -wikipedia

...I say it all depends on where you get your definition.

You should also bold the word OFTEN.... but anyways...

Lasing out in violence against authority and people? Check.
Chaotic behaviour? Check.
Generated by civil unrest? Check.

Yeah, it was a riot.

 

[madster111]

Madster, aren't you from Australia? I was pretty sure you were. But you're from the UK?

Hell no.

If i was, i'd have already moved to another country. Under 25s can't even drive anything bigger than a 1.6L over there unless they feel like paying 3-10x their cars value a year for insurance. Petrol prices are stupidly high, the government control absolutely everything and taxes are ridiculous. That's before i get to the weather, the city layouts, the laws and the cost of living.

I live in Australia, where i hate our government. It's shit and filled with 80 year old twatbags with no idea about anything, but at least we can drive a fucking car without selling a kidney or don't have to pay TV stations to own a TV in your house.

 

[WickedLiquid]

Ah, ok. Yeah I thought you were Australian. It's just the way you were talking about the UK I thought I was mistaken and you lived there.

 

[madster111]

Ah, ok. Yeah I thought you were Australian. It's just the way you were talking about the UK I thought I was mistaken and you lived there.

Stayed there for a week earlier this year.

 

[Longo_2_guns]

A fair number of the laws in the UK are good. In public areas, there's lots of cameras and plainclothes officers, which is really handy for keeping the peace. Really, a lot of the laws are pretty common sense though. No guns, no going out with a knife, shit like that. And hell, it makes sense why anything that isn't a small car would be heavy in insurance, because there's no reason to have a car in just about any city. The public transportation was damn good there.

Still, if there was an organized group who refused to pay their loans, that would get cracked down on anywhere. US, UK, Australia, Canada, wherever.