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Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by Bretimus_v2, Aug 21, 2010.
how about batman r.i.p. or the dark knight returns?
New reading assignments in the Title. Dark Victory will continue to be on the slate, too many of you are suggesting it so I can't just ignore it.
Here's a tangential question: Does the artwork affect your interest? Like if you were to pick up an issue from pre-80's. Are there artist that you just hate?
I own and have read The Killing Joke, I'll read it again tonight? Or are we supposed to all get it then read it together, taking breaks between the scenes to discuss, like a real book club? (The Killing Joke is pretty short and doesn't have chapters, but is that what we'll do for books that do have chapters?)
^ comic book nerd
there has been artwork where i just put the book down and say no more. thats one of the reasons i had such a hard time reading sandman. some of the art was great, where has other times, it was horrid. it took me forever to read all of "sandman: the kindly ones" cause of the art.
also, the killing joke, while a great insight into the just how deprived the joker really is (implied he shot barbara and raped her and made gordon watch the video of him doing it while tied up and naked), is just a bit over rated. it was a good read, but not deserving of the hype it gets. the artwork is great in it, alan moore tells decent joker story, but over all, there is better joker stories out there.
I'm just going to pop in for a sec and say that yes, artwork affects interest. At least, somewhat. It isn't necessarily a make/break aspect, but this depends upon the level of dependency the thing already admits to having on artwork. ...If that makes sense.
And yeah, Sandman is like that.
The artwork does have an effect. I refuse to read The Dark Knight Returns simply because I hate the art. Same for V for Vendetta.
Also, Sandman = awesome. We should tackle one of those.
the artwork matters not so much to me. Those big, jiggly eyes were a turnoff, though, in Scott Pilgrim.
well, the artwork in all star batman and robin is just so full of eye candy it borders on eye orgasm, but the story, god, frank miller, why??? but dear god, jim lee, i love you. sometimes art work can break or make a comic.
Jim Lee should just stick to covers, his art rarely fits the story of the writer he's working with.
Okay, just got a copy from my friend.
Thus far, we have just done broad overview based on what the first person said. I'd like us to comment on what one another are saying as well. Since I can never tell when someone acquires a copy I say once the topic and book is known, we should start discussing. I did a quick readthrough last night and will be sitting down to digest it tonight. For starters, I will say that...I really like Alan Moore, but sometimes I think that his works are a little overrated. I mean, he brings in much more adult themes and for this he is lauded. But sometimes they boil down to the same content that less mature authors give us.
Alan moore is a great writer. no denying it, but for every 5 stories he tells, there is 2 that is overated. back when the killing joke was written, it was shocking. a hero shot by a villian and paralyzed. the heroes father ( a hero in his own right forced to watch it all), reduced to mindless jitter.
but what should of been done is how tortured batman was over it. here was 2 of his closest compians, damn near murdered, and he acts like it's just another day. no severe bat rage or bat revenge, just another day of dealing with the joker. like it was no big deal.
I am not a comic book nerd, but the Killing Joke is one of the few comics I have read in the past, and I thought I should post my thoughts on it.
All I have to say is that if anything could cement the Joker as one of the most deranged and sadistic villains in all of comics.
We see a version of his back story, and even that is not likely the truth because the Joker as the narrator is like having Stephen Colbert as your news source.
And these parallels don't end, mind you. I always thought that Batman was similar to the Joker and all the other villains he faced in the comics because of the tragedies that have fallen upon them as they all were retconned and developed in the past twenty years. The rouges gallery is filled with the most twisted individuals you can ever find, and Batman is just as insane as they are, but the line he never crosses is what makes him great. A tragic hero, if you will.
The Joker crossed that line. He sees Batman as an equal because he knows Batman will never kill him. He tried to break Batman by reducing his closest allies to nothing, and pretty much almost succeeded. Taking them down to his level, as it were....
And for me, the most revealing thing about their relationship is the Killing Joke at the end of the novel, where Batman laughs. It is like he finally broke and laughed with him. If that is not an indication that they are similar in their tragedies, then nothing ever will. Batman is trying to turn his tragedy into something good, the Joker is turning his, rather cynically, into something evil.
i think the joker is over rated as batmans main villain. yeah, he is the dark knights polar opposite. but for my money, it's gotham itself that is batmans main villian. everything he's done for gotham, and yet it still throws it's worse at him.
I can't really say I followed batman very closely but I checked a comic out the other day in a shop and this happened.
^ As Scarecrow would say, "That's more like it."
I haven't had a chance to pick it up. I'll have to catch up on the next read.