9/11

[BIGNDfan22]

being a military child of us soldier i am greatly impacted by september 11th adn i was wondering how many people here support pres. bush's campaign in iraq, and if not please explain because everyone in my history class are ignorant fools...im dying for a good political debate.....please reply with good info that can be backed up

 

[Longo_2_guns]

We have no reason to be there.

 

[DH_Ninja]

I don't like bush,i think we shouldn't be there, but i also think that pulling out and giving a date of when we pull out won't go well either.

 

[FrozenBacon]

I expect this poll to be heavily one sided. You know, with all the hippies here.

 

[maca2kx]

I would say we (and I say we because unfortunately our military has behaved almost as badly as yours) but the situation has been buggered about by us so we should stay and sort it out (although I'm not saying what we're doing now is necessarily sorting it out).

The problem I have with the Iraq war is that it was not required. Using 9/11 as a reason to invade Iraq makes no sense when the culprits were from elsewhere. The Bush administration behaved deplorably even though Hussein was hardly a glowing beacon of humanity.

Long story short I don't think the Iraq war was needed but to pull out now and leave the country in the state it's in would be just as bad. Of course I'm hardly a strategic analyst so all of this is just my opinion.

Sam

 

[BIGNDfan22]

We have no reason to be there.

comments like that are what drive me crazy in any intelligent discussion because the have no fact.........thumbs down to longo

 

[BIGNDfan22]

i agree with maca on mainly all points the only difference in our opinions is the reason for invading Iraq...maybe im too gullible but apparently we went there because saddam was funding terrorism...when his government was overthrown anarchy spread all over and we are now trying to restabalize iraq as a country with a strong government

 

[Longo_2_guns]

We have no reason to be there.

comments like that are what drive me crazy in any intelligent discussion because the have no fact.........thumbs down to longo

Sorry, I was typing while pooing. The two are hard to do at the same time.

And the reason I am against the Iraq war is because I have seen no solid evidence connecting Hussein to 911. He did not have weapons of mass destruction like our government repeatedly stated, and so the reasons that we invaded Iraq for are null and void. Ask anyone why we invaded Iraq. Most people will tell you different things. Few truly know why we were in Iraq and few know why we are still there. So far the best I can understand is to keep the Sunni's and Shiites from killing each other, which is what they are still doing.

 

[kmg0]

It's a civil war, we shouldn't be doing anything. Plus Saddam's dead and captured.

 

[BIGNDfan22]

We have no reason to be there.

comments like that are what drive me crazy in any intelligent discussion because the have no fact.........thumbs down to longo

Sorry, I was typing while pooing. The two are hard to do at the same time.

And the reason I am against the Iraq war is because I have seen no solid evidence connecting Hussein to 911. He did not have weapons of mass destruction like our government repeatedly stated, and so the reasons that we invaded Iraq for are null and void. Ask anyone why we invaded Iraq. Most people will tell you different things. Few truly know why we were in Iraq and few know why we are still there. So far the best I can understand is to keep the Sunni's and Shiites from killing each other, which is what they are still doing.

thank you longo that possesed some true intelligence and yes there were no "weapons of mass destruction" but in the end the government was torn down and now we're helping out till the government can gain control of teh civil war going on

 

[MikeyVassallo]

We have no goal in Iraq.

 

[BIGNDfan22]

We have no goal in Iraq.

congrats stalfros u just succeded in making a complete ass of yourself...the whole purpose of this topic is for people who actually have intellegent points and arguements to talk about their opinions without ignorant dumbasses like yourself interupting them with stupid factless comments

 

[TheNesMan]

We have no goal in Iraq.

congrats stalfros u just succeded in making a complete ass of yourself...the whole purpose of this topic is for people who actually have intellegent points and arguements to talk about their opinions without ignorant dumbasses like yourself interupting them with stupid factless comments

I hate Mikey as much as the next guy but that's pretty harsh. Let me go through all of your posts and see if i can find any posts that are irrelevant to the topic at hand. If I find one I'm going to call you a hypocrite.

PS - You have no goal in Iraq.

 

[Dave Matthews]

Hmm. So, what pray tell, is our goal in Iraq then? And, by the way, "kill all the terrorists" isn't a satisfactory answer. The reason why is that our presence in Iraq, far from hurting the recruitment prospects of international terrorist organizations has been practically a gift for them. The National Intelligence Estimate, which came out a couple of months back, talked about this. Every day our presence in Iraq makes America less safe. All of the innocent (and, in war unavoidable) casualties help to breed "anti-Americanism" and hatred. Terrorists are added to "their" ranks more and more as American presence continues.

Is the goal to establish a stable Iraqi government? Well, that's a noble goal, but I don't see how it could be accomplished. Religious and ethnic conflict seem to preclude the establishment of a competent governing body, and the incompetence of the Maliki regime is obvious and perhaps only rivaled by that of Bush (joke, by the way, before you impale me on an American flag).

The Iraq War itself was won 4 years ago when America toppled Saddam Hussein's government. What America and its army are doing right now is well-intentioned, but I don't see, realistically, how it can work out.

 

[Chris_Crime]

Odd that I don't think about the war when I think about 9/11. I guess I should.

I'm on the fence because even though I support the war, I have to save face somehow when the facts are that we have no goal in Iraq. No future goal, at least.

We're just chillin in the middle east, putting up our military bases in the sand, and I'm not totally against that either. But we have our covert, shady reasons for being there, no doubt about it.

 

[BIGNDfan22]

Hmm. So, what pray tell, is our goal in Iraq then? And, by the way, "kill all the terrorists" isn't a satisfactory answer. The reason why is that our presence in Iraq, far from hurting the recruitment prospects of international terrorist organizations has been practically a gift for them. The National Intelligence Estimate, which came out a couple of months back, talked about this. Every day our presence in Iraq makes America less safe. All of the innocent (and, in war unavoidable) casualties help to breed "anti-Americanism" and hatred. Terrorists are added to "their" ranks more and more as American presence continues.

Is the goal to establish a stable Iraqi government? Well, that's a noble goal, but I don't see how it could be accomplished. Religious and ethnic conflict seem to preclude the establishment of a competent governing body, and the incompetence of the Maliki regime is obvious and perhaps only rivaled by that of Bush (joke, by the way, before you impale me on an American flag).

The Iraq War itself was won 4 years ago when America toppled Saddam Hussein's government. What America and its army are doing right now is well-intentioned, but I don't see, realistically, how it can work out.

thank you mr. Matthews for an intelligent counter arguement...you're right.....the goal of re establishing a strong government is a next to impossible task because the situation is so unrest..... this is why many say we need to cut our losses and pull out of iraq....your arguement has been the best ive seen so far and i applaud you for making a stubborn person like myself think about ur opinion....and by the way i just heard a news report syaing that bush plans to pull 30,000 out of Iraq...whatever i feel we should do im a patriot and support the decisions of the president that WE picked

 

[kingg5]

What exactly is our goal there? To get more oil so we can make Bush;s daddy richer?

 

[Sad]

BIGNDfan22, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The individual that was elected to be president, at least for his first term, quite often said that we should not go around nation building and sending our troops around at their peril. If that's what his campaign was, and we elected him on that campaign, doesn't that mean that we wanted to be governed by the notion that American troops shouldn't be tearing down random dictators and creating new governments in their stead? Most people in the academia argue that 9/11 was reason enough for him to pull a U-turn on his campaign promises, but I don't believe Iraq is much connected to 9/11. So when you say that we should be supporting the President that we elected, I say that we should be supporting the platform that we elected. If we were to follow the logic of what you said, it would mean that the President could well do anything he wanted to, and we would have to support him, even if we had no idea at all it was his intent to do such things. Hell, by that reasoning we just might end up one day having to support a President that will completely back out of his own campaign promises, and start fulfilling those of his opponent--that would be quite a nice bit of irony.

Also, if you look at the news archives from 2003, you will find that Iraq didn't fall into anarchy after Saddam was removed. In fact, Iraq was a pretty quiet place until around November 2003, almost 3/4ths of a year after the invasion. The current quagmire with suicide bombers and militias only started developing toward the end of 2003, beginning with the bombings of UN buildings.

Now, quite frankly, I dislike the war in Iraq because it was introduced to the American public with a great lot of information manipulation (just consider the causes behind the ensuing Blamegate scandal if you want me to substantiate that belief). On top of that, I think it is taking away both public attention and general resources from Afghanistan, which was a much more legitimate country for invasion, has much more international support and participation, and has been going much better in general than Iraq. By now, it's well on its way to deteriorating into a quagmire of its own, though if I understand it correctly, is still salvageable. I fear that with all this stalling and foot-dragging, by the time we get out of Iraq, we will simply have another one in the form of Afghanistan

 

[derekk]

I believe Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to attack Iraq because of the threats Saddam made against his father. I think is completely outrageous that he claims God told him the war was okay(or something to that effect). Any real goal they would have had should have been achieved by now, and like Dave said I think just staying there and getting innocent Iraqi citizens killed is just making a lot of countries just dislike us even more.

 

[AcidTrip]

Follow the money kids.