Justice League Movie discussion.

[Josh_Orona]

With DC comics and Warner brothers latest success of Wonder Woman, and the juggernaut Marvel has created in it's MCEU. Can they follow up with another gem or leave it's fans in disappointment again?

The latest trailer hit comic con today with a few reveals and prehaps a mini teaser to the return of superman or introduction of the green lantern? As well as the reveal of the story's main villain "Steppenwolf"

 

[COMaestro]

I have hope. Wonder Woman was really good!

Though most of the direction for Justice League was done by Zack Snyder, Joss Whedon was taking over finishing things up after the tragedy that hit Snyder's family. I trust Whedon to make an enjoyable film, and with luck he can insert enough of his directing into the finished film to avoid another BvS trainwreck. Add in that it probably won't be an amalgamation of two major DC storylines and hopefully not attempting to be the springboard for other films (other than JL pt 2), like BvS was, there is hope for it.

 

[Master_Craig]

I'm looking forward to Justice League.

I don't think it'll be The Avengers in terms of quality, but I think it's going to be enjoyable, at least, I'm hoping it's gonna be a good flick. COMaestro has already pointed out that Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice was an absolute train wreck of a movie and Suicide Squad, while better than BvS, wasn't that much of an improvement (it felt like a Guardians of the Galaxy rip off). Wonder Woman was actually really bloody good, one of my favourite films this year, so I trust that the DC Films are getting better and that they're learning from their mistakes, responding to fan feedback etc.

What happened to Synder's family is a terrible tragedy. While I'm glad that Joss Whedon is on board with Justice League, it's a sad shame that he's involved under these circumstances.

 

[Josh_Orona]

Well I for one am a Marvel Fan but I don't hate DC and do hope this film does well! So far the only DC films I've really enjoyed have been the Dark Knight trilogy and Wonder Woman which most would agree is there best to date.

I can't figure out what it is, but with DC movies I seem so disinterested or feeling as if the roles are being overplayed, waiting for that one line or scene to make the movie so its almost forced in a way. Rather then the characters grow on you they are just sorta there! am I the only one who thinks this way? The stories don't develop over the movie its as if they expect everyone who comes to watch to know the full back story for each character. I believe if they were to work more on the back story instead of trying to simply catch up to marvel their movies could improve.

 

[COMaestro]

Interesting. I find the exact opposite true of the DC films. They spend too much time with the character backstories rather than just letting the characters develop over the movie. You get an info dump on who they are or where they came from, then the movie happens where they magically develop into different people for no reason whatsoever or because of one little thing that happens to them.

Suicide Squad is probably the biggest perpetrator. We get little clips for everybody's backstory (except for Slipknot which just tells us he isn't going to be important. And he wasn't.), which is necessary to set up the characters, especially these rather minor characters in the comics that the general public will not know. But we get way too much regarding Harley and Joker, to the point it almost overtook the movie. Otherwise, everyone is a loner, doesn't work well with others, yet magically by the end of the movie, they're "family", despite very little going on to really bring the people closer together or to have any feelings for each other. Especially Captain Boomerang, who in his backstory clip turns on the guys he is working with in order to keep all the heist profits for himself, yet for some reason he comes back to help stop the big baddie at the end of the film. This man would have bounced the moment he was free to go and had no logical reason to stay.

That said, everyone knows Batman's backstory. Everyone knows Superman's backstory (though they are certainly changing things up here with some moral ambiguity from the Kents, a lifetime of which gets overridden after an afternoon talk with his holo-dad apparently). Did we really need another movie showing us the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne? I guess in order to stand alone and to make the "Martha" scene make sense, we did, but that was so hamfisted it hurt the intended drama of the scene and would have been better had it been rewritten. Hell, the line could have been, "Save my mom," which would have had the same impact on Batman, and they could have dumped the movie's opening dream sequence and cut five minutes from the already overly long film and it would have made the scene a hell of a lot less cheesy.

 

[Master_Craig]

Spoilers for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Bloody hell. The whole "Save Martha" thing was so dumb. "Your mom has the same name as my mom? We're best friends now". I think "Save my mother" or something would have not only sounded better, but would have had the same results as well.

Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice was such a dumb movie (should have just been called Dawn of Justice, to be honest). For me, it was way too long and it was just looking for an excuse to have Batman and Superman fight, which has been done before in the comics and some animated media (The Dark Knight Returns, Batman and Superman: World's Finest etc.)

I think the problem that Dawn of Justice suffered from the most, is that they tried to cram way too much into the movie. They tried to throw in Batman and Superman fighting, they tried to throw in Wonder Woman, they tried to throw in Doomsday and then they tried to finish it off with the death of Superman. Way too much going on! It was as if they were trying to achieve what the Marvel movies have done (e.g. setting up the Justice League) in a far shorter amount of time.

While I loved Ben Affleck as Batman/Bruce Wayne, especially the warehouse fight scene (which I swear, was inspired by the Batman: Arkham games), I don't like how they turned Batman into a murderer. I know the whole "no killing" thing is pretty ridiculous, but watching him gun down criminals or have grenades thrown at them to explode and die, was kinda hard. It's weird to watch Batman as a stone cold killer.

 

[COMaestro]

Oh GOD, was there way too much crammed into BvS. Though I think it is past the statute of limitations on movie spoilers, here is a warning anyway.

First of all, they should be trying to salvage Superman's image a bit after some people had issue with his killing of Zod and not trying to take the fight outside the city, which they failed with right off the bat when he superspeed crashes into that African warlord and drives him through a concrete wall and everything behind it. It's also so convenient how he can instantly reach Lois anywhere on Earth if she's in danger, but fuck Jimmy Olsen, right? And fuck his mom, too, since apparently his super hearing doesn't work through warehouse windows.

Second, introduce the new Batman. Third, introduce Wonder Woman. Fourth, hint at the other JL members with the videos. Fifth, have the movie be the ending of The Dark Knight Returns comic. Sixth, actually, let's throw in The Death of Superman as well. Seventh, hint at what villains are in store in the future franchise movies by giving Batman prophetic dreams and possibly throwing in a Flash Point. We are setting up a franchise, you know, so it's important to do this stuff!

And then there's Luthor. There were moments of brilliance to Eisenberg's characterization of Luthor, but sadly they were overshadowed by the rest of the performance which lay between stupid and annoying. Plus, in no way was he what anyone expected when they think of the character of Lex Luthor. It appeared obvious that he was aware of the identities of Batman and Superman, but there's no indication of how he came by this information. Maybe he did the same legwork Lois did in Man of Steel to figure out Clark and Superman are one in the same, but no idea about Bruce/Batman. It also seemed apparent he set up the kryptonite to be stolen by Batman in order to give him the ability to defeat Superman. But then he also makes an uncontrollable killing machine and sets it loose for the hell of it? What!? That makes no sense!

Affleck as Batman was great. We got a hint of how he may have changed into a killer by the desecrated Robin outfit, that warehouse scene was probably the best action sequence of the entire film, and his training regimen made Bale's push-ups look laughable. Though it is also as laughable to think he was so inspired by Superman's (stupid and needless) sacrifice that he'll change his ways, which was the feeling I got at the end of the movie. Gadot was great as Wonder Woman, though relatively absent for most of the movie. I'm glad we got to see her really shine in her own film. Cavill remains rather boring and dull, though a large part of that I blame on the writing and direction. The best scene of him, and really the most human part of the entire movie, was him climbing into the bathtub with Lois. It felt real and showed a level of intimacy and comfort between the characters that did not exist anywhere else.

God, the movie was such a clusterfuck, and here I'm thinking I might see it for a second time since my brother-in-law has not seen it yet. I'm slightly curious about the director's cut, which supposedly clears up a number of issues, but I fail to see how making an already too long movie even longer is a good idea. Guess I'll find out one of these days.

 

[Master_Craig]

I've been tempted to buy the director's cut of Batman v Superman, especially because it's usually a discounted product, but there's a good reason it's discounted. I've been told that yes, the director's cut is better, but it doesn't necessarily fix the issues of the original film.

With Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel, that was a bit of a shocker. I didn't necessarily mind that so much, but the whole destruction of the city thing, yeah, that was stupid... at the very least, it was addressed in Batman v Superman, and I liked how some people viewed Superman as a god and saviour, while some people viewed him as a monster who needed to be put down. But you're right, COMaestro... Batman v Superman didn't do much to try and redeem Superman, especially with that African warlord scene.

I also thought it was a bit silly to try and briefly introduce all the future Justice League characters in the film... especially given how they already had their own logos and stuff. If anything, that could have been an after credits bonus scene, or something?

Luthor was... different. I didn't like him. He seemed alright at first with an interesting and different direction compared to the traditional Luthor, but I agree, he just didn't make any sense. How did he know that Bruce Wayne/Batman were the same? How did he know Clark Kent/Superman were the same? How did he know Batman would come get the kryptonite (and how did he know that Batman would know that was Superman's weakness)? And why the hell would he unleash a monster upon the world?

Ben Affleck as Batman was awesome. The warehouse fight scene is honestly one of the best fight scenes I've ever seen in a movie, and it's certainly my all time favourite Batman related fight scene. Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne/Batman, in terms of raw physicality, makes Christian Bale's Batman look like a push over. I liked the training scene, actually... it was cool to see Ben Affleck doing a lot of hard, heavy work that Bruce Wayne would probably do.

Henry Cavill as Superman/Clark Kent sucked. He was as dull as a plank of wood. In saying that, I agree, it wasn't his fault, that was honestly the result of his direction and given character lines. He was so much better in Man of Steel.