Streaming Advice

[LinksOcarina]

Hey guys, quick question for you all.

I am looking into buying a capture card for streaming purposes, mainly for the my PS4 (priority) and Xbox 360 at the very least.

I am currently running with a Laptop only, no PC, so it has to be an external capture card of some kind. My problem is I don't even know where to start as a recommendation.

Any tips or recommendations you can give me would be much appreciated guys!

 

[De-Ting]

Bunch of people I know use elgato stuff.

https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming

Pretty easy to use, comes with all the necessary software, and there are plenty of tutorials out there to help get you started.

 

[UghRochester]

What I used secondly, but really my first good HD capturing device was the Elgato Game Capture HD. It does up to 1080p/30FPS. I first used the Roxio Game Capture HD Pro and I feel I wasted money. Everything was just sh*t about that. I'm not going into details, just trust me to stay away from that. Once I switched over to the Elgato, everything was perfect. So I recommend that if you don't want to do 1080p60FPS recordings.

Earlier this year, I mentioned I was lucky enough to get the Elgato HD60 S for free. I absolutely love this device and have zero problems with it. What's really great about this, and if you have a USB 3.0 (USB-C), you'll have very low latency and it'll be enough where you don't have to delay webcam and mic. The main problem is the video won't be encoded when capturing. Your laptop will be doing the work. With the Elgato HD60 and Elgato HD, the spec requirements are lower. The Elgato HD60 S device does 1080p/60 FPS and it looks amazing.

Since you're looking into streaming purposes, the Elgato Game Capture HD is a good recommendation. Twitch doesn't give automatic-transcoding for non-partners. What that is, is the ability for the viewer to change the quality theirselves. Sometimes, people just can't watch what you output and will complain about buffering. So most streamers like me will only output 720p. YouTube is different I think. Not to sure, but you'll have to ask Urban. Urban is the YouTube bias streamer here.

The majority of the streamers will using OBS instead of software the devices come with. Just remember capturing devices using a USB 2.0 will have a delay. The delay varies depending on how high the resolution is you're capturing. So, you'll have to spend time delaying your webcam and microphone if you're going to use any of those to match up the gameplay.

 

[thenerdds]

This could probably help: https://slicktechies.com/best-capture-c ... streaming/

 

[UghRochester]

I would just stick with Elgato Game Capture HD. If your laptop has USB 3.0 (you can tell by looking at your USB slots and seeing blue) and can handle the HD60 S, definitely get that. I feel Urban will agree with me.

 

[Master_Craig]

What kinda prices are involved for streaming? It sounds pretty fun.

 

[LinksOcarina]

Im looking at a 200 bill that I can sort of afford but not really...

A lot of folks here have suggested Elgato, I had a lot of others suggested Avermedia in particular for the easy setup.

Thoughts on that at all?

 

[Master_Craig]

The Elgato Game Capture HD60, the device UghRochester uses, costs about $215 AUD.

I can afford it, but in saying that I'm trying to save my money for either A - a new graphics tablet for drawing, or B - a new computer.

Just trying to prioritize which purchase is more important.

Do you need a decent PC to run this device? What are the file sizes like?

 

[UghRochester]

They are all easy to setup. I don't have an Avermedia product, so I can't tell you.

The HD60 S files sizes are huge for the best settings if you're recording from the software provided. For an example, a seven minute 1080p/60FPS recording took up 7 1/2 GB. However, I use OBS to stream. When I stream, it records as well. I have a five hour video that takes about 5 GB. This is at 720p60FPS at 2200kb/s

This is my laptop. You can view the specs there. Everything seems to work fine for me. However, I make the preview stream screen smaller, so my laptop's performance isn't working extremely hard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834215660

I'm only recommending the HD60 S, because it's made for streaming. I no longer worry about delaying my webcam and mic to sync up with my gameplay.

OH AND ONE IMPORTANT THING! If you're going to capture PS3 or PS4, you might want to invest in something to bypass the HDCP, which is a copying protection they put in the HDMI signals. On the PS4, you can turn it off, but not on the PS3. I use a HDMI splitter and it works perfectly. I know Urban tested the splitter I used out and it worked for him. I think Xbox One has HDCP too, but not sure.

 

[LinksOcarina]

I would need to set up a mic then for this as well (no camera)

My microphone is basically a headset though, I don't know if that can be tweaked for delays.

 

[UrbanMasque]

I would follow Ughs suggestion of the El Gato HD 60 S. This will allow you to pull in a webcam and also add some graphics and layers all over a USB for $170 USD. If you're Laptop is relatively new you should be able to handle this without issue, because streaming is very CPU intensive. The PC doens't need to be "decent" but it should be relatively modern. Any i5 or geforce 660+ is fine, similarly I use my macbook pro and its fine.. I wouldn't use a chrome book or a lightweight mac air b/c it probably wont work, but alternatively a mac mini is perfect for streaming. Once you start streaming you can minimize your El Gato Software (no need to keep it up really) and game. If you want to monitor your chat, I would suggest to go to the page you're live on and pause the stream. or just pop out the chat alone, because Streaming and viewng your stream from the same device might cause problems.

Also to start try these settings:
1280x720p @ 30fps - 3Mbps. That should be sufficient to start.

Craig ( try OBS with the settings above for your computer), if your current comp can handle OBS then it can definitely handle El-Gato. Also, if you find that OBS works for you (based on the machine I see on your youtube videos) you should capture yourself making a comic. Twitch really support art creators - https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Creative

The benefit of using this vs. just streaming from your PS4 is that you can now send to multiple locations. Youtube, hitbox, and twitch at the same time if you use Restream.io - vs just sending to one.

Also.. SUB TO MY CHANNEL! https://gaming.youtube.com/channel/UCd3 ... BqkGU5lTgg

 

[UghRochester]

I would follow Ughs suggestion of the El Gato HD 60 S. This will allow you to pull in a webcam and also add some graphics and layers all over a USB for $170 USD. If you're Laptop is relatively new you should be able to handle this without issue, because streaming is very CPU intensive. The PC doens't need to be "decent" but it should be relatively modern. Any i5 or geforce 660+ is fine, similarly I use my macbook pro and its fine.. I wouldn't use a chrome book or a lightweight mac air b/c it probably wont work, but alternatively a mac mini is perfect for streaming. Once you start streaming you can minimize your El Gato Software (no need to keep it up really) and game.

I just know from experience how much problems I made, simply due to the fact I had to delay my mic and webcam for the Elgato Game Capture HD. Even if you don't use a webcam, you would still have delay your mic so your reaction is on the spot. When I used the Elgato Game Capture HD I wanted my Twitch alerts to sync up with me, but the sound alerts uses the PC's Playback and you can't delay playback in OBS. I then used a Virtual Audio Cable and that worked for the most part, but it would cause static and get choppy during the stream and I wouldn't have the slightest clue unless someone told me which leads me to another advice. Make sure to do a quality check before streaming You definitely don't want the game audio to overpower your mic (*cough* Urban*cough*)

If you want to monitor your chat, I would suggest to go to the page you're live on and pause the stream. or just pop out the chat alone, because Streaming and viewng your stream from the same device might cause problems.

I agree. I never watch my stream from in a site's dashboard. That really takes a load of bandwidth causing you to drop frames and just have viewers experience a bunch of buffering. However, there are tools around the internet for people to use so you don't even have to go to the dashboard. I used a tool for my Twitch stream call "AhnkBot" The only downside so far is I can't see the emojis, but I'm familiar with the textforms of them.

Also to start try these settings:
1280x720p @ 30fps - 3Mbps. That should be sufficient to start.

Not sure if you're saying he needs at least 3mbps or he should stream 3mbps. If he's streaming 720p, I would suggest a bitrate of 2.5mbps (or 2500 kbps in OBS) as the highest setting for 720p. You don't want to overkill the upload. I stream at 2.2mbps (2200kbps) and it doesn't buffer for anyone. Also, I recommend you have at least 5mbps upload speed before streaming. Streaming gameplay takes a good chunk of bandwidth

I truly recommend the HD60 S, you won't have to worry about delaying anything. Of course your PC needs to meet the requirements like Urban mentioned. There are many benefits to streaming from an open source software like OBS vs pre-built streaming software (i.e PS4 console), because you're free to customize anything and can find any sort of tool.

 

[UrbanMasque]

I just know from experience how much problems I made, simply due to the fact I had to delay my mic and webcam for the Elgato Game Capture HD. Even if you don't use a webcam, you would still have delay your mic so your reaction is on the spot.

If you don't have a webcam? Then what is the delay? Think about it. The delay is between your video and what you say. If youre only sending audio - what is there to compare it to?
Also, your delay is cause by the fact that your audio & video sources are coming from two different places and you're running it through a third party audio software device, and you're watching the live stream on the desktop. Its hard to explain, but just setup the stream, and play, then monitor the chat. If he setups his webcam and uses that as his udio source, he'll be fine. The 'delay' is one of those self-induced things that low-end users gripe about, but its not really an issue.

Not sure if you're saying he needs at least 3mbps or he should stream 3mbps. If he's streaming 720p, I would suggest a bitrate of 2.5mbps (or 2500 kbps in OBS) as the highest setting for 720p. You don't want to overkill the upload. I stream at 2.2mbps (2200kbps) and it doesn't buffer for anyone. Also, I recommend you have at least 5mbps upload speed before streaming. Streaming gameplay takes a good chunk of bandwidth

I was saying he should send 3Mbps with his profile. 500 extra kbps isn't going to kill the upload speed, but it will make the stream look better - your home network should be able to send out 10Mbps without issue. Also every site has their own "Recommended Settings". Nothing is sacred, its all preference. different websites and different encoders use different profiles just as a rough guid-line. Links & Craig, find setting that work for you, and roll with it.


Alternatively, if you're building a rig and have a GeForce card of about 800 or later, I would recommend using the Shadow Play experience which is built into the graphics card so you're not using an encoder and your GPU is doing all of the work. Similarly, OBS has a setting in the profile (H.246 vs. X.264 vs. NVENC). The NVENC profile is just another way of doing this - its essentially making your graphics card encode the stream so you're CPU can do other things like run twitch alerts or Forge.gg

 

[UghRochester]

I just know from experience how much problems I made, simply due to the fact I had to delay my mic and webcam for the Elgato Game Capture HD. Even if you don't use a webcam, you would still have delay your mic so your reaction is on the spot.

If you don't have a webcam? Then what is the delay? Think about it. The delay is between your video and what you say. If youre only sending audio - what is there to compare it to?
Also, your delay is cause by the fact that your audio & video sources are coming from two different places and you're running it through a third party audio software device, and you're watching the live stream on the desktop. Its hard to explain, but just setup the stream, and play, then monitor the chat. If he setups his webcam and uses that as his udio source, he'll be fine. The 'delay' is one of those self-induced things that low-end users gripe about, but its not really an issue.

I just know from experience how much problems I made, simply due to the fact I had to delay my mic and webcam for the Elgato Game Capture HD. Even if you don't use a webcam, you would still have delay your mic so your reaction is on the spot.

If he uses the Elgato Game Capture HD, he would still have to delay his mic to match up with responding to a) gamplay, b) in-game chat

 

[UrbanMasque]

If he uses the Elgato Game Capture HD, he would still have to delay his mic to match up with responding to a) gamplay, b) in-game chat

He doesn't tho. The mic will match the gameplay because its being processed by the same device - and his chat? He'll respond to users whenever he responds to users. I've been in chatrooms with 3 people, made a comment and had to wait about 3 minutes to be acknowledged. Not due to a delay, but due to the fact that people are playing the game and not glued to their chat. He'll respond when he responds, the delay your talking about with regards to chat is between him and his viewers and not him and his device. Neither of which (if he isn't using video) matters.

 

[UghRochester]

I see why you're confused. You're thinking I'm talking about the Elgato Game Capture HD being streamed from its software, which I wasn't. I'm talking about it be using OBS to stream. He would still need to delay his mic in OBS. If you don't believe me now, you're full of sh*t.

 

[UrbanMasque]

welp, it was real guys. glhf

 

[UghRochester]

No, you're not done. You're telling me if Links or anyone is using the Elgato Game Capture HD to capture whatever console and streaming using OBS, he wouldn't need to delay his mic?

 

[LinksOcarina]

OBS doesn't really work too well for me anyway....

 

[UghRochester]

What software were you going to use to stream anyways?