No Original Sin 2,No Nier:Automata,No Dragon Quest XI,Nintendo Premature Ejaculation Habit Continues

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Grump, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Grump

    Grump Rookie

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    What the hell is wrong with this company ? They ejaculated prematurely with Wii U, having only Super Mario 3D World, Breath of The Wild and Bayonetta 2 as critically-acclaimed games, now Switch only has Super Mario Oddysey ? They seem to be unwilling to port other highly-regarded games unto Switch, hell, even Dragon Quest XI, which is supposed to be an easy catch, slipped through their fingers. Adding salt to the wound is no Red Dead 2, eventhough RockStar developed Chinatown Wars for 3DS once, Nintendo seem reluctant to continue the cooperation. Surely they don't rely on Pokemon Go to survive, do they ?

    Somebody please tell me whether this is conceit , or nintendo has finally capitulated ,and will cease to be console developer like Sega ?
     
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  2. COMaestro

    COMaestro Regular

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    I'm going to have to disagree with you on some points here and I'm confused by what point you are trying to make. The Wii U had other critically-acclaimed games, like Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Super Smash Bros. Wii U, and Super Mario Maker. Admittedly all 1st party titles, and though Bayonetta 2 wasn't 1st party, it was exclusive to the Wii U.

    You seem to be complaining that Nintendo isn't raking in the 3rd party support. But, after the SNES, when have they ever? While each console has received some AAA 3rd party support, it's been petering out since the N64. Nintendo continues to do its own thing with its hardware, usually meaning it is a very different architecture and, more importantly for developers, less horsepower than Xbox and PS, so a lot of big name developers don't want to bother with trying to port their AAA games to it. Or what AAA does get ported is so many years old that most people have already played those games and won't repurchase them. I don't think the lack of ports on the Switch is entirely Nintendo's choice, but rather often it's the developers who decide the costs of doing such a port outweigh any gains to be made.

    While Breath of the Wild came late to the WiiU, and I think most people associate it with the Switch as it was a launch title for it, so that's another critically acclaimed game for the Switch and I don't know why you'd associate it with the Wii U over the Switch. The system has only been out for about a year and a half and highly anticipated titles like Smash Bros., Metroid, and Bayonetta have been announced.

    However, you know what the Switch does have? Pretty much every popular and highly regarded indie title imaginable. And there are definitely some very popular 3rd party titles like Fortnite on there. But for years Nintendo has really only existed on its fanbase, and they are mostly interested in the 1st party content. Good 3rd party content was just a bonus. Now there's a ton of 3rd party support through indie titles, in a time when a lot of people are becoming dissatisfied with some of the bigger AAA publishers. This can only help Nintendo in the long run.

    Nintendo seems to be content with being the accompaniment console, the one you get in addition to PS or Xbox. So I think Nintendo will continue doing their own thing for the foreseeable future.
     
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  3. Grump

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    Mmmh, good 2nd / 3rd party titles are not bonuses for Nintendo consoles, they are essential, Resident Evil 4 carried GameCube, Xenoblade Chronicles carried the Wii, Bayonetta 2 carried the Wii U, and Fire Emblem : Awakening carries the 3DS. It's just the case of Nintendo overestimating their worth, and not giving 2nd/3rd party devs the recogniztion due.

    It also happens with Sony not acknowledging Persona series enough, that it carries the PlayStation brand ,but with God of War, Witcher III, i can't complain about the support Sony gives from gaming aspect (the only important aspect) to the PS, not the same thing can be said about Nintendo, they think they are the star of the show for their consoles eventhough they are not, and disregarding the 3rd party developers by not giving the recogniztion they deserve.
     
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  4. COMaestro

    COMaestro Regular

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    Are you trolling? RE4 carried the GameCube? Xenoblade Chronicles carried the Wii?

    RE4 was popular, no doubt, but in sales it trailed behind games like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mario Kart Double Dash, Super Mario Sunshine, Zelda: Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, and only managed to outsell one of three Mario Party titles. Notice a theme of 1st party titles here? And I don't mean trailed right behind, either, all of these sold at least a million more copies worldwide than RE4, and most of them well over two million more copies.

    http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/29/gamecube/

    You know where Xenoblade shows up on a chart of top selling Wii games? 178th place. Xenoblade Chronicles is well below nearly every 1st party Nintendo game in sales. Hell, it got outsold by Monopoly. MONOPOLY!

    http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/2/wii/

    Like RE4, Bayonetta 2 was definitely a popular title, but once again, nowhere close to carrying the console, selling under a million copies worldwide compared to the usual suspects, Mario Kart Wii U, New Super Mario Bros. U, and Super Smash Bros. Next, all of which sold over 5 million copies. Heck, the Zelda: Wind Waker remaster outsold it by over a million copies.

    http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/47/wii-u/

    And just to round out the list, Fire Emblem shows up in 29th place for the 3DS, well below every Pokemon game, Monster Hunter game, Zelda game, and the majority of games with Mario somewhere in the title. And I feel it important to note that the Fire Emblem developer, Intelligent Systems, is almost a Nintendo property, having only released games for their consoles and actually starting out headquartered inside Nintendo's Kyoto Research Center, so in my mind it really doesn't count as a 3rd party title anyway.

    http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/42/nintendo-3ds/

    So I'm afraid it's not Nintendo overestimating their worth, but you underestimating it. The Mario Kart and Smash Bros. games always sell at least somewhere between 5 to 7 million copies each (Wii being the exception at 35 million for Mario Kart and almost 13 million for Smash Bros.)

    EDIT: I will also note that I'm not a Nintendo fanboy and have not owned one of their consoles since the Wii, though I did get both the NES and SNES minis (at retail price).
     
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    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  5. Grump

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    You're out of your mind when citing sales for influence. A game doesn't make an impression through sales, but through quality, whether or not it stands the test of time.

    You're not going to to mention Top Gun as the movie that influenced the 80s, as well as Jurassic Park that influenced the 90s most. That's what you did when comparing trash like PokeMon and Super Smash to Xeonblade and RE 4. Games like Xenoblade , RE 4, FE: Awakening and Bayonetta 2 are what make gamers invest for Nintendo's next consoles, along with 1 party titles like Super Mario Galaxy.Let's admit that Zelda hasn't been good since Ocarina of Time and Metroid Prime was the last good Metroid, those are the Scorsese-Kurosawa-Spielberg games, the games that stand the test of time,and not some scrubs like Smash or PokeMon. You think Switch Smash will compete with MGS V : Phantom Pain and Witcher III and CyberPunk 2077 ? Wise up. The same goes with Sony: Persona 4, Shadow of The Colossus, Persona 3 , Okami carried PS2 (along with FFX, Vice City and San Andreas) eventhough their 'sales' might not be that impressive, they did gargantuan to the brand PlayStation and gaming,just like Ran,Schindler's List and hThe Lives of Others did to movie,eventhough their sales are small.

    And who the hell uses VGChartz in this day and age ? Don't tell me you're using Internet Explorer,too.
     
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  6. Green_Lantern

    Green_Lantern Forum Moderator
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    You sound like one of those pseudo intellectual gamers that insist on only playing games with a metacritic score over 95, the worst type of gamer. And your argument takes a hit when you’re trying to say Persona 4 carried the PS2 even though it released 2 years AFTER the PS3 launched and the PS2’s life cycle was pretty much over.

    Nintendo does just fine for itself even with the not so great track record of third party game support. Hell, you mention that “trash” Pokémon but it’s probably the biggest video game franchise in the world, possibly only behind the Mario franchise.
     
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  7. Grump

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    What happens , if a parent watches his/her daughter becoming a drug addict ? Would he/she say "You're doing just fine, you're on the right track. If one or two things don't work,we'll work it out together" ?. F, no. he/she will be worried to death, probably taking her to one or two detox clinics, waiting patiently for years for her betterment, or no betterment at all.

    You patting Nintendo on the back won't help their survival, let me tell you that. Sometimes tough love is what is needed to straigthen people up. Sony got the bitter taste of awakening medicine last gen with the complete failure of PS3, Can Nintendo follow up ,and learn from past mistakes, of others and themselves ? is the million dollars question.
     
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  8. COMaestro

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    You never stated "influence" in your initial posts, you said "carried" which when talking about a gaming platform and the company that makes it I would take to mean, "made the most money for them." Don't fault me for your poor use of language.

    And don't throw movies into the mix when we are talking about videogames. They are completely different things, despite some games seemingly wanting to be movies in their own right.

    You poll a number of people who have invested in Nintendo platforms about what games they are hoping for or looking forward to and you inevitably hear Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, and other Mario titles. Yes, you'll get some Xenoblades or other random titles, but Nintendo has a main lineup for a reason: THEY SELL! People highly anticipate titles in these lines.

    You mainly site games that are noted for their artistic quality, but I don't think really influenced most game designers or publishers. Who has done games like Persona? Shadow of the Colossus? Okami? For the first two, pretty much only the original publishers make games like that. For the latter, it took a lot from Zelda itself in my opinion. You know what did influence publishers? Call of Duty. That's why we had a slew of FPS military shooters that continue to be made to this day!

    So stop pretending that all the games you listed in your original posts have such a massive impact. For the most part, they don't. I won't deny they are classics, because they are, but they don't have the same mass market appeal as Nintendo's usual IP for those who purchase Nintendo consoles. Money is what keeps a business afloat, not artistic integrity.
     
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  9. Grump

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    Have you ever taken a trip to a movie school ? Why don't you round up , who the favourite directors of the movie students are ? Michael Bay ? David Fincher ? Or the usual suspects like Stanley Kubrick, Akira Kurosawa, Alfred Hitchocock, Osrson Welles ?

    The same as gaming, game developers most probably would cite Resident Evil 4, Persona, Shadow of The Colossus, Baldur's Gate II, Okami as their influence. What do those works influence ? The works of those developers of course, be it camera, combat system, level design, interactivity , context (story). The AAA games like Call of Duty became more and more RPG like in their levelling system thanks to whom ? Zelda, Mario, that have no levelling system whatsoever ? How about the camera in Mass Effect 2 ? Pretty much emulating RE 4. How about Last of Us blatantly influencing the latest God of War in its context-driven setting ? More and more games like XCom 2, Into The Breach , Original Sin 2 dare to have turn-based combat systems due to Persona and Advance Wars: Dual Strike. And the faith that gamers (among them developers) have in a console to deliver a monumental 'experience' that will change the gaming landscape and game development in general is the main driving force in investing on a console, something that shovelwares like PokeMon and Super Mario Kart lack.

    For an undeniable example of a console without strong tradition underlying it, only backed by financial juggernaut, look no further than XBox One. Where's Halo, where's Gears of Wars ? Where's BioWare with their usual highly-venerated RPGs ? Destroyed by lack of tradition and greed by PUBLISHERS you so cherish. Those brown ,drab,dreary,colorless games that plagued the last gen ? Gone for good, replaced by vibrant Persona, Dragon Quest XI, Original Sin 2 (OK, Shadow of The Colossus is also drab and drary, i'll give you that one). F me, is someone had tried cel-shading last gen, they would have been blasted for being too childish and not realistic-dudebro enough. Sony flipped the bird nevertheless, and delivered LittleBigPlanet, Street Fighter IV, even Uncharted 2 and ni No Kuni against the grain, following a vision deeply entrenched in a tradition to make video games charming to look and to play.

    That's how entertainment and art in general work. Damn, you owe me for this lecture, when you could have researched it for yourself.
     
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  10. COMaestro

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    The camera in ME2? RE4 was hardly the first game to use over the shoulder, third person shooting controls. Look at Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon 2 for just a couple of examples. But I will admit that RE4 did have some influence over game designers, especially CliffyB for Gears of War, though I'd say he improved RE4's formula greatly, and I don't even like GoW that much. But you'll note I never claimed that RE4 didn't have influence. Nor did I ever claim that game designers/publishers are not influenced by games. We had a generation of MMS for a reason, and that was because everyone was chasing that Call of Duty/Battlefield money by trying to copy them.

    So don't just throw out random games and state how they were influenced by what came before. What you have done nothing about is to convince me about the influence of Persona, Shadow of the Colossus, and Okami on modern games.

    Turn based combat has been a feature of X-Com since the beginning, and has been a staple of JRPG's since their inception, and only recently broken in the past decade at best. You honestly think Persona or Advance Wars really influenced that decision by any other games in the modern gaming space?

    I already stated how Zelda influenced Okami, both in just overall game structure, but looking at Wind Waker, I'd also say the bright, vibrant aesthetic. Hell, I like how you say drab and dreary games are "gone for good" replaced by vibrant games, when nearly EVERY Nintendo entry qualifies as vibrant. Meanwhile we still have Battlefield and Call of Duty for dull, drab MMS that sell remarkably well, along with numerous other games that don't but still lack the vibrancy you seem to think is all that is made anymore.

    Sony flipped the bird? Uncharted was a huge success for them, you don't think they would follow that up with more entries? A series that basically updated Tomb Raider with a male protagonist and was so good the original company basically copies it to update Tomb Raider years later?

    Sure, they made some cartoonish looking games that sold decently. So did Xbox flip the bird when they released Viva Pinata? Or Kameo: Elements of Power? Both cartoony and colorful in their own right, the former reviewed and sold well, the latter not so much, to the point its planned sequel was cancelled.

    As far as the Xbox One, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot (and brain) when they first announced the thing. It was so anti-consumer that it never fully recovered, even after their backpedaling. Trying to equate their failing to their game selections is folly.

    And again, your original premise was that the list of games you provided "carried" the Nintendo consoles. Not "influenced," "carried." A claim which you have done absolutely nothing to back up.

    If you are going to lecture, make sure it is in regards to the subject at hand.
     
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  11. Grump

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    Influence means carry, jsut like heterosexuality carries the whole human civilization through its life-givng aspect, be it in plants (seed and earth) or in creatures (sperm and egg). The creative force behind influential games are what gives life to gaming, and carries gaming. You can have all the infrastructures , and technology, but without heterosexuality that gives life, all will falter. Just like the creative force behind music and cinema is what carries those medias, how they inspire and transform other's mind and perception, so does the creative force behind Persona 4, MgS3, Baldur's Gate II change the way developers and gamers alike think about what is possible in gaming.

    The creativity itself carries gaming. Without influential works , the media is dead. Just look at today's garbage music, and compare it to 80's when U2, Iron Maiden and REM were still around, or 70's with Led Zeppelin and The Who. Creative force carries all forms of media, its influence ripples throughout, and gives life that transforms people into looking the media itself from a completely different perspective. It is intangible unlike income, but its impact is even more undeniable than the tangibles.

    you've passed your adolescence and you don't know this ?
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  12. COMaestro

    COMaestro Regular

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    So you just skip over everything I wrote to focus on the one thing you can actually refute with some grammatical gymnastics and pseudo-intellectualism?

    Okay, if influence means carry, prove to me how RE4 influenced the GameCube. How did other GC games after it show signs of that influence? Then do the same for Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii, Bayonetta 2 on the WiiU, and FE: Awakening on the 3DS. If they had as much influence as you claim, I'm sure there must be plenty of titles after these were released on their respective consoles which show signs of that influence.

    Or, you could agree that carry also means to support, and that in the case of a corporation who's primary goal is to make money for their shareholders, the games that sell the most will be what supports the company, allowing it to stay in business.

    Actually, nevermind. I'm out. I'm tired of arguing with someone who chooses to define terms in only one way, makes outrageous claims with absolutely no evidence to back them up and disregards other people's insights and facts with derision because it disagrees with their worldview.
     
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