Lolwut?
- Thread starter Rakon
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De-Ting
Rookie
This is why we think before we speak, children.
I, being someone who was stuck in a rut in public schools that couldn't cater to my educational needs, can see why he dislikes compulsory education. However, the evidence of what happens to kids and their families when they aren't sent to school is present all around the world. It seems to me that he's looked at third-world countries, where under-privileged kids enjoy getting to go to school, and expects Americans to act the same. Wishful thinking, but drastically misguided.
I, being someone who was stuck in a rut in public schools that couldn't cater to my educational needs, can see why he dislikes compulsory education. However, the evidence of what happens to kids and their families when they aren't sent to school is present all around the world. It seems to me that he's looked at third-world countries, where under-privileged kids enjoy getting to go to school, and expects Americans to act the same. Wishful thinking, but drastically misguided.
Sourdeez
Regular
In my state, High School was like a prison sentence. My state refuses to allow anyone to take the GED before they are 17. I didn't learn a single thing in high school. It was one long prison sentence of showing up to a institution where I didn't learn anything(I mostly slept through classes and still got good grades). By the time I turned 17 It just wasn't worth it to drop out and get my GED because I was so close to graduating.
My first semester of senior year of highschool I needed half a credit to graduate early in december. The school refused to let me take a early before school class, a after school class, or even a college class and let it count for that half a credit.
So at that point, being in what I considered serving time, I decided to game the system. My school has a rule that lowers your quarterly letter grades for every 5 days of school you miss. So that last semester I showed up for class all first quarter and mostly got Bs. Then the second quarter I barely showed up for school at all calling in sick every day, and didn't do any homework, which made the school drop that quarters grades to Fs. Well your final grade is your first quarter plus your second quarter and then plus your final exam grade then averaged.
I passed all my exams and graduated.
The school board had to add to the rule, because of me, the next year. Now if you miss 20 days your expelled.
I tried anything to move onto college. A point in school in which I would actually learn something. Really though, I was forced to endure four years of serving time learning NOTHING. It really felt like serving time in a prison(They even built a brand new school with concrete walls shaped like a prison, Windows that don't open, Doors that are always locked, and even the parking lot was fenced in with flood lights on at night.)
I always get this feeling that I was being used as just a body for the school to extract more taxpayer money.
I'm all for giving people a education and even allowing parents to choose where and how their kids get an education But we shouldn't make it compulsory like in my state that if you are intelligent you can't test your way out of school and into college. I understand in some states they do allow you to do this, this is more of just my example from the state of Illinois.
I do agree that the news article makes me scratch my head. I think a "good education" is very important and is very possibly one of the best investments you can make for the future of our society.
My first semester of senior year of highschool I needed half a credit to graduate early in december. The school refused to let me take a early before school class, a after school class, or even a college class and let it count for that half a credit.
So at that point, being in what I considered serving time, I decided to game the system. My school has a rule that lowers your quarterly letter grades for every 5 days of school you miss. So that last semester I showed up for class all first quarter and mostly got Bs. Then the second quarter I barely showed up for school at all calling in sick every day, and didn't do any homework, which made the school drop that quarters grades to Fs. Well your final grade is your first quarter plus your second quarter and then plus your final exam grade then averaged.
I passed all my exams and graduated.
The school board had to add to the rule, because of me, the next year. Now if you miss 20 days your expelled.
I tried anything to move onto college. A point in school in which I would actually learn something. Really though, I was forced to endure four years of serving time learning NOTHING. It really felt like serving time in a prison(They even built a brand new school with concrete walls shaped like a prison, Windows that don't open, Doors that are always locked, and even the parking lot was fenced in with flood lights on at night.)
I always get this feeling that I was being used as just a body for the school to extract more taxpayer money.
I'm all for giving people a education and even allowing parents to choose where and how their kids get an education But we shouldn't make it compulsory like in my state that if you are intelligent you can't test your way out of school and into college. I understand in some states they do allow you to do this, this is more of just my example from the state of Illinois.
I do agree that the news article makes me scratch my head. I think a "good education" is very important and is very possibly one of the best investments you can make for the future of our society.
NickKmet
Regular
Sourdeez said:
wow, that's.... ridiculous. In my state, washington, you can easily just test out of high school and go to college if you really want to. You can also go to community college and earn your AA while you're still in high school, and have those credits count for both. What I ended up doing was taking art classes once I'd finished all my required credits. easy senior year was nice. In retrospect, I should have done running start (the community college shit) instead of AP classes. Could have gotten my AA and then done two undergraduate degrees instead of one. Would have allowed me to pick up a degree in a field where I'm basically guaranteed a job, instead of just music.
madster111
Rookie
Education is compulsory in Australia up to year 10 in high school, although we have a tendency to not do it in a stupid way.
It's designed to be more flexible than what sourdeez described. You can drop out of highschool whenever you want and just get the equivalent or better training at a TAFE, which is like a college but you only take the courses you want for however long they go for and it's much, much cheaper.
So in Australia we tend to have people with less general knowledge in exchange for more specialists.
This is a decent enough trade-off, considering most people who opt for the TAFE route go to year 10 before leaving. I think i'm right in saying that Year 10 for Aus is roughly equivalent in terms of things taught to a mixture of Year 11/12 in the US school system, depending on which courses you choose.
I think school should be compulsory up to a point. At roughly 16yo most people can make the choice regarding how they want their education to go, so forcing them to do it after a certain point doesn't make sense.
The problem with that stems from shit schools with shit teachers teaching boring shit. If even half the things i've heard about US schools are true, i don't know if it would work over there because everyone would GTFO as soon as they could.
It's designed to be more flexible than what sourdeez described. You can drop out of highschool whenever you want and just get the equivalent or better training at a TAFE, which is like a college but you only take the courses you want for however long they go for and it's much, much cheaper.
So in Australia we tend to have people with less general knowledge in exchange for more specialists.
This is a decent enough trade-off, considering most people who opt for the TAFE route go to year 10 before leaving. I think i'm right in saying that Year 10 for Aus is roughly equivalent in terms of things taught to a mixture of Year 11/12 in the US school system, depending on which courses you choose.
I think school should be compulsory up to a point. At roughly 16yo most people can make the choice regarding how they want their education to go, so forcing them to do it after a certain point doesn't make sense.
The problem with that stems from shit schools with shit teachers teaching boring shit. If even half the things i've heard about US schools are true, i don't know if it would work over there because everyone would GTFO as soon as they could.
I just switched to a charter school because I didn't give a shit about public schools. Worked out well for me.
There should just be options besides regular public school. Except unschooling, which is bullshit.
There should just be options besides regular public school. Except unschooling, which is bullshit.
LinksOcarina
Rookie
Um...I hate to be that guy, but he has a point.
Well, mainly on the parent's burden. Up in New York, my few experiences on the other side in the Board of Ed have shown that general apathy and lack of support from the parents to reinforce learning and in some cases, behavior leads to the breakdown of teachers. In some respects he is correct, learning should be an opportunity.
hes wrong in his approach though, to the point where making school optional, people will essentially doom themselves to trade and technical schools at best, or a GED- equivalent. If that is what you want of course thats a fair option, but as those jobs become filled in about 5-10 years it won't be economically viable. If you really want to change the system, three things need to happen.
1. Stop treating schools like controlled prisons, and the students and teachers prisoners.
2. Give the teachers more resources, abilities and respect to actually teach students through diverse tactics.
3. eliminate standardized testing, which is never a fair indicator of ability or aptitude.
This will not only make public schools more palpable but will increase the teacher/student/parent relationship to where such frustration will not matter anymore. Tell tat to the bureaucracy of the BOE in each state though...
Well, mainly on the parent's burden. Up in New York, my few experiences on the other side in the Board of Ed have shown that general apathy and lack of support from the parents to reinforce learning and in some cases, behavior leads to the breakdown of teachers. In some respects he is correct, learning should be an opportunity.
hes wrong in his approach though, to the point where making school optional, people will essentially doom themselves to trade and technical schools at best, or a GED- equivalent. If that is what you want of course thats a fair option, but as those jobs become filled in about 5-10 years it won't be economically viable. If you really want to change the system, three things need to happen.
1. Stop treating schools like controlled prisons, and the students and teachers prisoners.
2. Give the teachers more resources, abilities and respect to actually teach students through diverse tactics.
3. eliminate standardized testing, which is never a fair indicator of ability or aptitude.
This will not only make public schools more palpable but will increase the teacher/student/parent relationship to where such frustration will not matter anymore. Tell tat to the bureaucracy of the BOE in each state though...
Rakon
Rookie
This is just an example of the mindset "It isn't working, so let's get rid of it".
The American education system is broken in so many ways I'm not going to even try and list them here. But it is a system that is designed to fail it's students (not give them failing grades, but fail them in general).
Kids need an education. They need structure. Giving a 12 year old the option of going to school or playing CoD all day? I think I know which one they'll go with. It's insane to just let kids drop out and do nothing. That breeds crime. Giving kids the option of education is probably the worst idea I've ever heard of in my life.
The system is broken, so fix it. Don't abandon it.
The American education system is broken in so many ways I'm not going to even try and list them here. But it is a system that is designed to fail it's students (not give them failing grades, but fail them in general).
Kids need an education. They need structure. Giving a 12 year old the option of going to school or playing CoD all day? I think I know which one they'll go with. It's insane to just let kids drop out and do nothing. That breeds crime. Giving kids the option of education is probably the worst idea I've ever heard of in my life.
The system is broken, so fix it. Don't abandon it.
Chris_Crime
Rookie
It's not broken, it's bent.
The rich have the luxury of having better schools, and all that comes with like better security, general digs and manageable class size ratios, good teachers and better equipment and funding, and the poorer counties, poorer districts get the shit end of the stick.
That's not the wealthy's fault, not even blaming them. Maybe the County Commissioners can answer to these issues better, but things are always better on one side of town vs. the other. Again, not the wealthy's fault. Not blaming rich people for being rich.
I'm always meeting a new foreigner who got his or her degree on the cheap in their home country, who are now here in America and are struggling to find work. On the other hand America has some nice Universities for those who are lucky enough to attend. It's not broken, it's funneling out the unwanted.
The Utah lawmaker is speaking against teachers, not education. He's making a blow at unions, not children. It's a lofty attempt, laughable even, but meh, it got him headlines. It amounts to nothing but message board banter.
Most populated countries in descending order
1 China 1,336,718,015 = consisting of one race
2 India 1,189,172,906 = consisting of one race
3 United States 313,232,044 = consisting of six races*
4 Indonesia 245,613,043 = consisting of one race
5 Brazil 203,429,773 = consisting of one race
6 Pakistan 187,342,721 = consisting of one race
7 Bangladesh 158,570,535 = consisting of one race
8 Nigeria 155,215,573 = consisting of one race
*white, latino, black, asian, native american, hawaiian or islander
3rd largest country, consisting of 6 different races.
This doesn't even include foreigners. This is an actual breakdown of American demographics vs. others rocking a 1 demographic for basically 100% of their makeup.
Point being, this is how much Murrica really sucks. Our education is bent, it's tipped in favor of the rich-just like every other country on this planet. Poland has great laws, great school districts, great vacation time for their employees? Well shit, they're only 38.5 million living there, making it the 34th most populous country in the world. I'm pretty sure they can afford it.
Your country has no people, and you're full of do nothings nobodies doing nothing for nobody except railing against those silly Murricans, and that's a great position to be in. I'm envious of you for that. I wish we were more like what you wish for. The less America stays out of the world's affairs, the better. Just like in Egypt. We actually gave a lot less than many other countries in aid, but anything we give is too much for some. Understood, but that's an entirely different ball of wax. Anyway, let's stop sending aid that in turn buys more Boeing and Lockheed "goods and services" aka corporate welfare aka buying the vote, and spend that money on infrastructure and, yes, American schools.
"Let them handle it." That'll be the America they'd hate the most.
The American dollar is still the world's reserve currency. do you even care?
Literacy Rate All/Male/Female/Criteria
The rich have the luxury of having better schools, and all that comes with like better security, general digs and manageable class size ratios, good teachers and better equipment and funding, and the poorer counties, poorer districts get the shit end of the stick.
That's not the wealthy's fault, not even blaming them. Maybe the County Commissioners can answer to these issues better, but things are always better on one side of town vs. the other. Again, not the wealthy's fault. Not blaming rich people for being rich.
I'm always meeting a new foreigner who got his or her degree on the cheap in their home country, who are now here in America and are struggling to find work. On the other hand America has some nice Universities for those who are lucky enough to attend. It's not broken, it's funneling out the unwanted.
The Utah lawmaker is speaking against teachers, not education. He's making a blow at unions, not children. It's a lofty attempt, laughable even, but meh, it got him headlines. It amounts to nothing but message board banter.
Most populated countries in descending order
1 China 1,336,718,015 = consisting of one race
2 India 1,189,172,906 = consisting of one race
3 United States 313,232,044 = consisting of six races*
4 Indonesia 245,613,043 = consisting of one race
5 Brazil 203,429,773 = consisting of one race
6 Pakistan 187,342,721 = consisting of one race
7 Bangladesh 158,570,535 = consisting of one race
8 Nigeria 155,215,573 = consisting of one race
*white, latino, black, asian, native american, hawaiian or islander
3rd largest country, consisting of 6 different races.
This doesn't even include foreigners. This is an actual breakdown of American demographics vs. others rocking a 1 demographic for basically 100% of their makeup.
Point being, this is how much Murrica really sucks. Our education is bent, it's tipped in favor of the rich-just like every other country on this planet. Poland has great laws, great school districts, great vacation time for their employees? Well shit, they're only 38.5 million living there, making it the 34th most populous country in the world. I'm pretty sure they can afford it.
Your country has no people, and you're full of do nothings nobodies doing nothing for nobody except railing against those silly Murricans, and that's a great position to be in. I'm envious of you for that. I wish we were more like what you wish for. The less America stays out of the world's affairs, the better. Just like in Egypt. We actually gave a lot less than many other countries in aid, but anything we give is too much for some. Understood, but that's an entirely different ball of wax. Anyway, let's stop sending aid that in turn buys more Boeing and Lockheed "goods and services" aka corporate welfare aka buying the vote, and spend that money on infrastructure and, yes, American schools.
"Let them handle it." That'll be the America they'd hate the most.
The American dollar is still the world's reserve currency. do you even care?
Literacy Rate All/Male/Female/Criteria
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