Hot Button Issue TIME!

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by UrbanMasque, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. UrbanMasque

    UrbanMasque Everyone Wears a Mask

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    What do you guys think about the Mosque being built near (a relative term) ground zero?
     
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  2. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    I really don't have strong feelings about the Mosque one way or the other. I'm more interested in the political positioning to come out of it. I had thought there was a chance for New York and America to again show their tolerance of others - our nation having always been culturally diverse - by allowing the Mosque to be built without hassle, but hysteria and a right-wing momentum are spinning the issue into something more of an anti-Obama campaign than anything to do with 9/11. So, when politics came into play, it got dirty and the real issue was lost (9/11 Mosque being built near ground zero). At least for me.

    I think there's an obvious detrimental point of diminishing return on any political party to align themselves with fringe groups. ask the green party lol
     
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  3. GRColin

    GRColin Rookie

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    I somewhat agree with a quote from the Daily Show....Just because you can do it, should you? I'm all for freedom of religion, but building a Mosque two blocks down from where Islamic extremists were responsible for the deaths of 3500 people....I don't know. It doesn't seem to be in good taste. Sure, it's not as bad as building a pizza oven or a gas station on a Jewish memorial site but you know.
     
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  4. WickedLiquid

    WickedLiquid Regular

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    This is the first I've heard about it. Thanks Chris for explaining it a bit.

    Personally, I don't understand why a Mosque needs to be built near ground zero. I guess it's to try and put the whole thing behind us. Like if it was 9 years after World War 2 and we tried to be more accepting of Germans since not every German is a Nazi, that kinda thing.

    But the problem here is that we haven't caught the people responsible for 9/11! Osama Bin Laden is STILL a free man and for all we know he's STILL planning another attack just like after the '93 bombing of the WTC. The Taliban need to be wiped out along with others who manipulate their Muslim faith by turning people into suicide killing machines. Will we ever accomplish that? Maybe not. But let's at least find Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice. The Americans found Saddam buried in a hole underground, maybe they just got lucky but if they can find him, they can find Bin Laden.

    I think a lot of people feel like 9/11 hasn't been resolved because those responsible have not been caught. So to build a Mosque as a way of putting things behind us seems a bit unfair to the victim's families.
     
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  5. Lien

    Lien Rookie

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    I would like to point out that on of the oldest Mosque in New york is still sanding... a couple of blocks away from the new mosque, built before Israel was founded... Just sayin'.
    And the new mosque? It's not even one! It's going to be a Islamic community center which INCLUDES a mosque. Sort of like a YMCA... except without the sports part and the village people. And there's like

    And blaming all the Muslims for 9/11 and not allowing them to worship in accordance to law (the paperwork was all done a year ago) is like saying all black people steal and shouldn't go to schools or the Jews control the world, let's get rid of them. So yeah, bigotry. The Nazies were Germans but i'm not going to call Germans that, The japanese flew over pear Harbor suicide style but i'm still gonna called them virgins and Russia was communist therefore i will ignore the past 20 years and say Russians must all die!

    And that one line from the daily show was used as a satyr.
     
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  6. LinksOcarina

    LinksOcarina Rookie

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    As a new york native it is hard to not see this all over the news, but to be frank, I can care less about it, mainly because the entire issue is a non-issue to begin with.

    So I want people to stop saying they can't build it because it is disrespectful to the events of September the 11th. It is more disrespectful that there is a controversy over something so trivial if you ask me.
     
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  7. GiftedMonkey

    GiftedMonkey Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    Its a thorny issue; the most civil of discussions about this mosque seem to follow this path:

    >Building a mosque near Ground Zero is in poor taste. People who live and work in the area will see a symbol of what killed so many fellow countrymen just years earlier.
    >>Yeah, well there is already a mosque even closer to Ground Zero than the proposed one would be.
    >So does that mean its ok for someone to come in and build another one? Nobody seems to actually want it.
    >>But building it will show that Americans have come to terms with what happened.
    >Maybe Americans have and maybe Americans have not. Does this not seem like a giant "f*ck you?" What if we built a cathedral on the grounds of Saddam's palace?
    >>So? Christian churches have been built on grounds that were sacred to Native Americans
    >And do you think the Native Americans are feeling pretty good about that?

    Like Chris said, building the mosque would show that we Americans are showing forgiveness....but like Lein said, there are already plenty of mosques in NYC, including one even closer to Ground Zero...but like Jon Stewart said, if there already is one, do there need to be more?

    Also, I haven't heard any actual arguments FOR the building of the mosque, all I hear is "If you are against the mosque then you are a bigot."[/url]
     
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  8. Lien

    Lien Rookie

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    Stupid typo... And stupid Spell check who thought i actually meant the mythical beast that rapes little girls...

    But wait, didn't the mayor of new york and Obama (in a ramadan feast) supported the construction or at least oppose the Nay-Sayers? doesn't that make they supporters are something?
     
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  9. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    As land owners, it is their right to build whatever they want on the land they own (well not ANYTHING, but you know). Is it in 'good taste'? Probably not. I think this issue will always sea saw. On one hand, you have people saying it should be built because they own the land and it'll help promote religious tolerance. But if they don't when will we move past this? If never, do we ever have religious tolerance?

    YOU DECIDE!
     
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  10. Daddio

    Daddio Regular

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    Well seeing how the American government trained the terrorists and LET them crash into the towers, plus the pentagon to put fear into the people for another war .. why not? Can't say it didn't do the job, 9+ years later and this 'war' on 'terror' is still going. Oh ya, and gas prices went through the roof.

    I just feel bad for all those lives sacrificed to up the countries income with the war and the muslims who have been wrongfully targeted since the events of 9/11.
     
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  11. Bretimus_v2

    Bretimus_v2 So tired.

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    First off, wraiths in one topic and satyrs in another? This place is turning into Narnia.

    I think that building a mosque at Ground Zero (edit: it's called that because that's just what it's called)falls into the "too soon?"/poor taste category. You can sit here and shout bigotry and religious tolerance, but aren't we nit-picking religious involvement in every other facet of US culture/politics? Seriously, I think that a general memorial is the best option; dealing with all those affected and involved by 9/11: bystanders, safety crews, people on board the flights, etc. Ultimately it should be used to rebuild something useful towards what the WTC Towers were originally being used for. I do think it's important that it should show the involvement and support of the Islamic community of NY during the following aftermath. But most importantly, it's their land and they should do what they want.

    But c'mon...a mosque there would just end up the centaur of attention.
     
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  12. BlackStar

    BlackStar Rookie

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    As a New Yorker with another opinion. I think it's disrespectful but who gives a shit what us Christians think. South Park wants to mention the word Muhammad? Hell-Nah! We better bleep that or Muslims will get upset.

    However if Muslims want to build an Islamic center and Mosque right next to ground zero it's a-ok! And if you have a problem with it then you're just a red-neck racist who has no respect for other cultures and religions!

    People, stop crying and carrying on. It's nice to have the hippie attitude and believe we can all live in peace but I think Team America said it best. It's nice to have pussies but unfortunately we also need dicks because there are assholes. And this is coming from someone who thought Bush was the biggest retard since Steve Ballmer.

    There are plenty of Muslims in NYC and they all have Mosque's to go to. While I don't have a problem with most of them there are some who really piss me off. I've seen Muslims on the street in their pajamas spreading hatred and claiming why they dislike the United States. Then GTFO douchebag, I hear Canada's nice this type of year.

    Almost every New Yorker I know disapproves of this. It isn't about tolerance, it's about respect.
     
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  13. Lien

    Lien Rookie

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    Actually, for me at least, the biggest issue in this is why the hell is the place still ground zero! Seriously! It's been nine years already!
    I seem to recall that 5 years ago they planned to rebuild the towers, out of glass too! So, what's going on? What, is this, the Reichstag now? (it was left unrepaired after a fire in 1933 to symbolized the communist threat and led Hitler into power). It's just so depressing, i think we should just... move on now and turn the place into something quick, then maybe something better afterward.

    And i used to live in New york before 9/11 with my family you know. And last i heard, my family (who still lived there) think that both side of this debate is rubbish. There never were suppose to be a debate to begin with.
    While i still think no one should blame ALL the Muslim in the world into this! let alone the one that lives next door for generations.
     
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  14. LinksOcarina

    LinksOcarina Rookie

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    My brother is one of the people working on the site right now, they are building something.

    the problem was the red tape to build something because a ton of people complained about the construction ideas.
     
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  15. Eyebrowsbv31

    Eyebrowsbv31 Rookie

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    As others had said, it's in bad taste, and terribly disrespectful. I hope the builders accept the offer to build it elsewhere for free, and not be nobheads about it.
     
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  16. Chris_Crime

    Chris_Crime Rookie

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    As Rakon's already mentioned, it's private property and it's in NY. I really shouldn't have an opinion in the first place. The national media is forcing a 9/11 connection, and it has more to do with current politics than the actual event itself - on whole. So I'm not going to throw myself into the ... debate?

    Maybe someone will burn it to the ground, like we do in the south. Burn it down good.
     
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  17. FrozenBacon

    FrozenBacon Veteran

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    You know, I went to Afghanistan to fight my part in this war on terror, specifically the Taliban. My job involved trying to get into the minds of these guys by tracking their day to day business and breaking out terrorist networks. I got to know some of them pretty well. From this I know some of the extremists who climb the ranks of the Taliban are some of the worst, most misguided Muslims ever and provide nothing positive to this world. I really am glad that I helped destroy some of their networks in Afghanistan and really hope that organization disappears so the people of Afghanistan can lead regular, slightly less fucked up lives.

    Now with my distaste for the Taliban explained, I'll say that I do not give a damn about this mosque being built near ground zero. Japanese people visit and take pictures of pearl harbor all the time, should we ban them from seeing that? While what happened in NYC was a horrible thing, it is history and erecting a mosque near it changes nothing. The mosque will not build up some Taliban resistance in the US, or anywhere for that matter. I think the debate on this whole thing is silly, really. But then again I wasn't one to care much for politics. Half of the stuff dealing with politics are just touchy matters that in the end, do not even matter. More talk that does nothing but perhaps cater to the pointless feel good feeling in peoples' stomachs.
     
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  18. BlackStar

    BlackStar Rookie

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    I see what you did there.

    I'm not prejudice against all muslims. I have friends who are muslim and even they don't think this is a good idea because they believe it will spark unneeded hatred.

    The bottom line is they don't have to do this. I hate the news and it's propaganda as much as you but I didn't feel it was the right thing to do even before the media blew it out of proportion.
     
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  19. KoalaRainbowPoop

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    i hate new york anyways. so hell yeah, build that damn thing. piss them off even more.
     
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  20. Trippysmurf

    Trippysmurf Rookie

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    I think they should be allowed to build it. They own the land, they got the OK from the city, from other religious groups in the city including Christian and Jewish leaders. The got the OK from the Mayor. Everyone was OK with it being built until May thanks to Faux News.

    To not allow them to build it is proof that one of the things Osama Bin Laden was trying to accomplish worked: we are no longer a free country. Instead we have given up our most sacred rights out of fear.

    To quote one of our founding fathers Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." This includes Muslims. And the fact that we are blatantly ignoring this, the whole country should be ashamed.

    I also feel it is a greater insult that 9 years later we still do not have the proposed Freedom Towers that were supposed to have already been constructed.

    I also feel it is a greater insult that our elected officials failed to pass a bill granting health care coverage to all those first responders who are now dying because they were heroes.

    Instead of respecting the lost and all that our country stands for, the majority is in favor of supporting fear and hate-mongering, and religious and social intolerance. Truly we are a great nation.
     
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