Education

Discussion in 'Films, TV, Music, Books, Etc.' started by Longo_2_guns, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Longo_2_guns

    Longo_2_guns Forum Moderator
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    In a world that's constantly becoming more and more dependent on upper level education, what are your views on college and graduate education? Do you think that it's necessary? Did you go through any higher education yourself?

    I'm personally in my first semester at UC Berkeley, and it's been good so far. Hard, but rewarding. I think that really, the pursuit of knowledge is something everyone should strive for. There is no good except for knowledge, and no evil but ignorance after all.
     
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  2. danielrbischoff

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    When I applied for college I really let personal stuff dictate where I went. Out of 6 UCs and CSUs in CA, I was accepted to 5 and I went to my saftey school in the end. There were lots of great things that came of that, but also lots of things I regret.

    So what I would say is that it's not worth if you can't be selfish or think of your own future ahead of people in your life at the time you enter school.

    If you can really throw yourself in the deepend with higher education, it can open up SOOOOOO many doors. So yeah, I think it's necessary if you really want something out of it.

    Plenty of people have the gumption and know-how to really succeed in life without college though so it's not something that closes as many doors as recruiters want you to think.

    How are you liking Cal?
     
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  3. cyberjim2000

    cyberjim2000 Veteran

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    I've graduated two years ago. The one thing I did regret is not taking any internships during the last two semesters while I was there. But to me, the best classes are the ones that they made you take even if they're not required in your field of study.
     
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  4. Green_Lantern

    Green_Lantern Forum Moderator
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    I have a BA and am planning on starting on an MBA sometime later this year, so I'm a pretty firm believer in a university education.

    My biggest regret, though, is not taking classes and such as seriously as I should have when I was starting out.
     
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  5. StickyGreenGamer

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    I didn't graduate from my high school, I was arrested and removed from attendance (not expelled!) about one week before I would have finished my first Senior semester. So, that led to me eventually getting my G.E.D. Nothing to brag about (seriously, its not) but I scored in the top 98% of state participants in the G.E.D. test. King of the morons, if you will.

    Eventually went to the community college here. Started out intending to get a business degree, then I realized business classes suck. I was really enjoying English classes though, so I switched to that. A flurry of personal and financial problems, one ex gf who left me in a pretty bad way, and a school running its enrollment and priority registration ass backwards led to me not being able to finish my degree on time. It finally led to me no longer even bothering with registration, since there is almost no way for me to get back to spot in priority registration where I can get my classes that I need.

    I'll finish it eventually, I really don't think I have the choice not to.

    Now, as for the other part of your question.

    Absolutely not. Not for everyone. A big problem now is that everyone is pushed towards college, and not everybody is meant to be there. Forcing people in that should not be there, for whatever reason, drains from the resources that those who are ideal for attendance have available.

    There is nothing wrong with pursuing a career as a construction worker, and for the majority of work in that field, a college degree is a lot less valuable then the equivalent 4-6 years of job experience.

    There is nothing wrong with deciding to pursue a career in the military as an enlisted soldier. Once again, an option that is better served with career experience instead of a college degree. Not true for every job in the military, but true for an equally decent chunk.

    Plenty of other careers, spending a good amount of time studying the subject is beneficial to the work you do. Career choices should be a major influence on your schooling, but in some cases, it doesn't offer the benefits that can be gained by direct injection into the field.

    As far as going for personal enrichment, that is entirely your choice. Forcing schooling on more of the masses that are already having the lower tier schools forced on them though is a bad idea. So, as long winded as this is getting, I think my point is pretty legitimate. Its not for everyone, it shouldn't be necessary. For those who want it, who can handle it, the option should be there for them.
     
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  6. madster111

    madster111 Rookie

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    In Australia, college is much less important than it is in the US.
    While in the US you finish high school and then go to college - that being the accepted thing - in Aus, you finish highschool and then grab a job. While doing the job, you can do a TAFE course which is effectively an education on more specific subjects that you can choose, with course costs varying on many things.

    Part of this is that we're just a more layback country in general, but we also have very high standards of education just for highschool. It also helps that the main income for our country - mining - requires no school education, just a higher degree from TAFE for your specific area. Like if you're going to be a Rigger, you don't need to have finished school only done a certificate 3 or 4 at TAFE.
    For example, i'm currently doing my HSC (high school certificate) at TAFE so i don't have to do it at a school, and one of the thing's i've noticed is that in a couple subjects we're learning topics that are generally done in college in the US. This, combined with pushing 2 years of study into 1, makes it hard to keep up with.


    One of the best things with our system here in Aus is that TAFE is simply much, much cheaper than college. Going to college means you're doing lots of different things at once - many that you won't use in your future career - and you're paying out your ass for it. What's the average debt after college now, $30k? $40k?
    A Certificate 4 course at TAFE is much cheaper and usually quicker.
    My mate is currently doing a Cert 4 which will make him qualified to be a paramedic, and the total course cost is $15k. That's $15k and he can become what he wants, a paramedic, or if he ends up not doing that he can become an EN nurse at almost any hospital in the country.

    Another thing to remember is that $15k in Australia is much different to $15k in the US. A $15k loan for TAFE comes out of your tax return every year unless you put more money towards paying it off, and there's no interest at all.
    This makes it extremely easy to pay off, especially when you considering the average weekly wage for an unskilled, scum-class worker in Aus is $400/wk.
     
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  7. LinksOcarina

    LinksOcarina Rookie

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    I say go for it.

    But be prepared for a tough market at the moment, right now some fields are way down, while others are up. Do research and be ready to be dissapointed if what you want to do will not be a bread-winner for you in the immediate future.
     
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  8. intoTheRain

    intoTheRain Regular

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    Its not necessary at all if you have the intelligence, perssonality, and drive to succed and progress without one.

    Unfortunately most people do not have this (not unfortunate for those who do). For the people that dont school is necessary. There are plenty of jobs in north america. No one is qualified though.
     
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  9. Longo_2_guns

    Longo_2_guns Forum Moderator
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    I'm going to agree with both intoTheRain and Sticky. It isn't necessary to get a college degree, however it's definitely helpful, since you can do more with a degree than without one.

    But there is the whole cost aspect of it. A degree is expensive, and not everyone can afford to get a degree. So while that means it's a little hard for the poor to get less poor, those who are exemplary no matter what their conditions are can get into some sort of university.

    One interesting thing one of my professors has said is that students who go to the schools like Harvard or Yale are great students, but couldn't think outside the box for the life of them. Something you wouldn't usually think about.

    And I'm loving Cal. It's hard work, but I got my first essay back and got a B+ on it, which was a bit of a surprise. Very encouraging.
     
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  10. NickKmet

    NickKmet Regular

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    I honestly think it depends on the degree, and the career you want. If you want to do anything science based, you have to go to college. Other fields, not so much.

    I'm a music composition major, and while I could potentially see someone not going to school for that degree and entering into that field and being successful, your options would be extremely limited. Most composition on the art music side is done at the university, and if that's what you want to study, you have to get the degree. If you want to do that for a living, you at least need a masters degree, if not a P.h.D. because you'll need to teach at a university to have any kind of a living.

    Commercially, you can be successful without formal training, but again, it's often at school where you make the connections that will further your career later on.

    But, say, if you wanted to start your own business, getting a business degree isn't really necessary (though it can be helpful).

    I don't know, my 2 cents.
     
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  11. MattAY

    MattAY Forum Moderator
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    It's probably a different debate over here considering our tuition fees just went up, so it now costs around £9K per YEAR to go to university now.

    Back in my day when it was cheaper, I'd say it's definitely worth it. You get to choose the niche subject you're interested in and study it, so that you can get a career in that niche. All the while finding new friends, finding independence and learning a whole new bunch of stuff! I miss university.
     
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  12. MasterRabbi

    MasterRabbi Rookie

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    I have my Masters (7 years of school), and place a lot of value in higher education. I've wanted to go to college since I was a wee little man, what I wanted there was less clear. As long as I was learning, and a variety of subjects.

    I agree with StickyGreenGamer though, in that it's not for everyone. Wherever a person goes after high school they need to know what they want out of it.

    I do think that today's jobs are becoming more technically demanding, and more demanding of the 'well rounded' education as well. Right now our mode of obtaining this is college, but think that some of these schools need to be pushed down into lower education as well. High school education has become too static, and reform is needed there.
     
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  13. Rakon

    Rakon Rookie

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    Education is never a bad thing, you just need to decide how much of it YOU want. If you want to be a lawyer or a doctor, then yes, school is going to be an integral part of your life. I know a couple of people who went straight into the working world and didn't bother with school, and they're doing fine. I'm almost done school, and I couldn't be happier. I think education is extremely important, but I hate class and I'm very glad to be done with it.
     
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  14. Affen

    Affen Rookie

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    I found no use for high education and went through vocational school. That shit was useless. Really gave me nothing than a diploma and grades that no one has ever asked.

    Schools give you some basic understanding of things, but the real learning happens by really working in the field. At least that's the case for me.
     
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  15. Green_Lantern

    Green_Lantern Forum Moderator
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    Yeah a college education obviously isn't for everyone, but it does give you more options than not having one. Im currently working a job that only requires a hs diploma but also pays around 70k a year. Its a great job for right now (the company will also pay for my masters) but with my degree i can look into moving up in the company a lot faster than people with a diploma only.
     
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  16. Rainemaida

    Rainemaida Veteran

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    I got arrested my junior year of high school, and got expelled. I ended up graduating 4 months later through an independent study program at the community college. I graduated a year early, and started my freshman year at my local community college whilst my classmates started their senior years.

    My second year of CC I got arrested again, did 5 months time, but learned alot of valuable lessons, as well as skills. (I was in the top 60 prisoners of NC and got to go out and build nature trails and fight wildfire.) So when I got out in May 2009, I wanted to do an outdoor degree. That fall I started Lees-McRae College in Banner Elk, NC majoring in wildlife rehabilitation. I loved the wildlife center, I made some awesome friends, but LMC is a crappy private school (i was paying 7k, tuition was 30k). After interning at the center for a year and failing all my classes except wildlife rehab, PE and English (and 1 sociology class), I decided to drop out of LMC.

    I took last year off and worked/bummed around for a year. This past fall I decided I wanted to go back to school. I have ~80 credits that range from stats and botany, to religion and wildlife.

    Now I attend Haywood Community College (outside Ashville, NC) for Forest Resource Management. I know it's a CC, but it has the most prestigious forestry program on the east coast. Also, the county were in is the most biologically diverse for tree species in the nation, and were ~40 minutes from Great Smoky Mtn Natl Park.
    The school offers both Forestry and Wildlife Management as two-year degrees, and basically ensures a job after graduation as long as you did well in school. I want to be a wildland firefighter, which requires no degree. I just think having this degree will help with future outdoor jobs as well being an interesting subject.
    Also, I attend school for free, but I took out a loan for living expenses (apt, comp, etc) for 5k.

    It's awesome, because the only classes I have to take are Forestry or biology, since all my "basics" have been done for a long time. This semester I have two classes, Botany and Forest Measurements. Awesome schedule :D But we have labs and go out in the woods weekly, and you learn tons of important conservation information, regardless of your professional intents (warden, wildfire, private-timber, research, etc)

    And to answer, is college necessary? Hell no!
     
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  17. NickKmet

    NickKmet Regular

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    Not like it's any cheaper here Mattay. Tuition at my school is over $30,000 a year now, and that doesn't count room and board, which is usually another $6,000 to $8,000. There are also a lot of schools that cost a lot more, though plenty that cost less. It just depends where you go.

    College debt is a huge problem in this country right now though - it's well over a trillion dollars. Fortunately, I'm getting my undergraduate degree free of debt. But if I want a post-graduate degree, I'll be paying for that. My brother just took on $70,000 in debt for his masters, which my parents can't believe. I have to remind them that most of my friends from school are taking on that much debt for their undergrad, and a lot of them will take on more for a masters.

    Shit's ridiculous in the US.
     
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  18. Gunner37

    Gunner37 Rookie

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    Yeah college is not a cheap thing where i go is a little over $12,000 a semester with room and board and double that for out of state tuition.
     
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  19. C_nate

    C_nate Rookie

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    If you are going to go, make sure you are going to get a degree in something that you actually have a shot at doing once school is done. A lot of people with degrees are working at places like starbucks because they took a major in something that isn't hiring.

    Don't overlook trades. My cousin went the electrician route and is making very good money as well as someone close to me who is a nurse that cleared 70k gross last year. Currently going to classes to either do occupational therapy or nursing myself.
     
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  20. intoTheRain

    intoTheRain Regular

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    Ive been contemplating becoming a nurse.
     
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