Death penalty and vengance?!?

[Tylzen]

I've had this discussion with EyebrowsBV31 on AIM.
And he didn't believe that I was against the use of death penalty (in a certain circumstance, eg. my GF got killed and they'd caught the guy who did it, if I would want vengance upon him).
And I am still not, I am against the whole eye for an eye thing.

Also I had the discussion in my social studies class today, and 100% in my class were against any form of death penalty or vengance.
(Not against life in prison).

What about you?

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

you kill someone on purpose, with intent, you get the axe. I firmly believe that if someone takes a life, they lose theres in return.

Just remember that if someone kills someone you care for, would you be satisfied letting him walk or get out after a few years in prison? I sure the hell wouldn't.

 

[Tylzen]

Just remember that if someone kills someone you care for, would you be satisfied letting him walk or get out after a few years in prison? I sure the hell wouldn't.

That is what I would call, under certain circumstances.
We did discuss that, and no, we have trust in our prison system.
Our longest time here is 16 years, though you can get life for severe crimes (One got it from killing his entire family with his bare hands, including his two children).
If you're mentally ill you will not get out either.

And if someone is threathing my family with a gun or so, and I know that they will be killed. I would fight back, even if it meant that the other guy would die.
But that's self-defence and not death-penalty.

 

[MattAY]

im against it, even for special circumstances. mainly because revenge is never a good thing - you always end up feeling dirty. i reckon a long jail sentence would suffice, they can calm down and learn their lesson etc. no need to add another death.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

im against it, even for special circumstances. mainly because revenge is never a good thing - you always end up feeling dirty. i reckon a long jail sentence would suffice, they can calm down and learn their lesson etc. no need to add another death.

usually they get out on parole, we just had a guy(murderer) get out on parole, one week later he raped and murdered a retired editor for the Local news paper.

They don't seem to learn.

 

[BananaKing]

you kill someone on purpose, with intent, you get the axe. I firmly believe that if someone takes a life, they lose theres in return.

Just remember that if someone kills someone you care for, would you be satisfied letting him walk or get out after a few years in prison? I sure the hell wouldn't.

I agree... i strongly agree.

 

[Krowsnose]

I'm against the idea of killing someone because of something they solely did in the past. The only time I can see killing being justified is if someone is a current threat to your well-being. (though in many cases they are) It's also dangerous when you start forming morality around the issue. Then you have people halfway across the country who aren't affected by the situation at all and they want blood.

I think in many cases you can avoid killing and just heavily sanction the person. But when it comes down to it, the perpetrator is a human, and all humans have their uses. At least make him a slave or something

 

[Amarius]

Not a bad idea, Krowsnose. :wink:

That said, it's a simplification to say death penalty=vengeance. Sometimes it's just a matter of protecting the rest of society. Sick freaks like the people who rape and murder little girls - repeatedly - can do harm anywhere, including in prison. Besides, why should we, the taxpayers, have to shell out our own hard-earned cash to pay for Charles Manson's cable TV?

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

I'm against the idea of killing someone because of something they solely did in the past. The only time I can see killing being justified is if someone is a current threat to your well-being. (though in many cases they are) It's also dangerous when you start forming morality around the issue. Then you have people halfway across the country who aren't affected by the situation at all and they want blood.

I think in many cases you can avoid killing and just heavily sanction the person. But when it comes down to it, the perpetrator is a human, and all humans have their uses. At least make him a slave or something

I guess we should of let all those former nazi leaders off after WW2, I mean, that was solely in the past.

 

[Rakon]

There's a certain paradox when it comes to the death penalty. It seems strange that some would say it is justified to kill someone out of vengeance. The death penalty is strikingly similar to first-degree murder. The whole pre-meditated thought of killing someone out of vengeance, doesn't seem like a good lesson to society. Counter intuative., don't you think?

Also, if someone where to die on death row, but were later on proven innocent, as a society, we have committed a pre-meditated murder, on someone who did not deserve it. So shouldn't we all be put to death? (By the way, there are many cases where people have been proven innocent after execution.)

As a jew, I am bothered by the question "If you had the chance, would you kill Hitler?" My answer: Would I be considered a murderer, or a savior?

 

[TheNesMan]

It's pretty hypocritical to kill someone for killing another. I'm against the death penalty, not to mention, death is an easy out, life in prison is a much greater punishment.

 

[masterchris]

As a child, I was always taught two wrongs do not make a right.
NOBODY on Earth has the right to end somebody else's life.

 

[5ympathy_d3nied]

to Tylzen- so you would kill some one if your family COULD be killed, but if he actually KILLED them and went to jail, you wouldnt want the death penalty for him. thats a double negative i think. im all for the death penalty, why spend millions of government money, our money, to feed and take care of people we dont want to take care of. We'd have a high electricity bill but its still cheaper than a life sentanceing that they could possibly get out of, and kill again.

 

[Krowsnose]

I guess we should of let all those former nazi leaders off after WW2, I mean, that was solely in the past.

I wouldn't care if I was working alongside them. As long as they're contributing something to my life and not interfering with my well-being.

 

[maca2kx]

masterchris, although I agree with you (that's a first) I'm wondering how you feel about imprisonment since you say two wrongs don't make a right and forcibly incarcerating somebody for a set period of time is hardly 'right' (though it is required in many cases).

5ympathy, statistically speaking keeping someone in jail for life costs less than the various legal procedures along with the required waiting time that accompany a death sentence.

NesMan, the degree of punishment involved in a prison sentence really depends on the prison, some prisoners seem to get better treatment than some people on the outside. Besides, should we focus on punishment or should we focus on what is best for society as a whole?

Sam

 

[TheNesMan]

NesMan, the degree of punishment involved in a prison sentence really depends on the prison, some prisoners seem to get better treatment than some people on the outside. Besides, should we focus on punishment or should we focus on what is best for society as a whole?
Sam

I think some form of punishment/retribution is needed. You definitely want to have societal betterment as one of your primary goals but justice is always required. Another point with the death penalty is what if you kill an innocent man? I would rather a 100 criminals go unpunished than see an innocent man be killed.

 

[Eyebrowsbv31]

NesMan, the degree of punishment involved in a prison sentence really depends on the prison, some prisoners seem to get better treatment than some people on the outside. Besides, should we focus on punishment or should we focus on what is best for society as a whole?
Sam

I think some form of punishment/retribution is needed. You definitely want to have societal betterment as one of your primary goals but justice is always required. Another point with the death penalty is what if you kill an innocent man? I would rather a 100 criminals go unpunished than see an innocent man be killed.

That's special cases. If the man was a proven, admitted murderer, off 'em.

 

[TheNesMan]

NesMan, the degree of punishment involved in a prison sentence really depends on the prison, some prisoners seem to get better treatment than some people on the outside. Besides, should we focus on punishment or should we focus on what is best for society as a whole?
Sam

I think some form of punishment/retribution is needed. You definitely want to have societal betterment as one of your primary goals but justice is always required. Another point with the death penalty is what if you kill an innocent man? I would rather a 100 criminals go unpunished than see an innocent man be killed.

That's special cases. If the man was a proven, admitted murderer, off 'em.

Can something be proven beyond all doubt though? There has been cases where men have be killed and later they find out he was innocent. At the time they quite obviously were positive that he was guilty, but we're never always right.

 

[Icepick]

It's a moot point, I know, everyone probably picked me to be arguing for capitol punishement, however during Law classes, kind of changed my opinion

see the concept is that they get what they deserve, either way you look at it, sentancing someone to death just further impacts the community, rather than releives it

it costs more to house an inmate on death row than it does to let him live his life in prison, moreover, death penalty does not act as a detterant in any way, and if you want to dive into the statistics, it shows that more murders occured in certain states and countries when there was the death penalty as opposed when they removed it in the same state.

 

[Flaming_Tiki_God]

I'm strongly against it, for everything that Icepick says.
Also, I just think that killing is wrong and can never be justified unless you're in direct, persistent danger, but even then I wouldn't try to kill anyone. Only as a las resort would I.
Also Also, I believe that life in prison is a worse punishment than death (which just ends it all, instead of mental torturing and tormenting which is done in jail.) I mean, I'd certainly rather die than spend life in prison. Many of these death row inmates harly have anything to live for anyway, or else they wouldn't have thrown it all away, so putting them to death may actually be a blessing to them. Life is just torture, torture to match the torture that the victim or the victim's close one are going through.